Grandfather slated 12 year old girl

[littlebird7]

My sister has just been here sobbing.
I have never seen her so angry or upset, she could barely breathe and I am feeling really choked for her.

She was at my parents house and my df whom suffers from mild depression took it upon himself to rip into my niece whom is 12 yrs and very quiet and sensitive girl at the dinner table.
He commented on her weight, her hair (said it was greasy, it definitely isn't, she just styled it differently) he said he clothes look second hand from a charity shop (she was wearing ripped leggings which are fashionable these days) and said she was stupid and dumb. I am not sure how my sister got out of the house without a serious fall out, but she called me last night and has been here today, she is so distressed I don't know what to say to her.

I have since called my mum and she confirmed that it all happened, and she was crying and saying she thought df was just joking. Clearly this just isn't funny. My niece is mortified and wounded and refusing to see him again, she was already scared of him before as he has a temper and keeps screaming at the family dog. At this age you have to be so careful about eating disorders etc. She is really skinny already and def does not need to lose weight.

What can I say to my sister, my mum, should I speak to my Dad? My sister has just been through two major operations and has another one coming up, she has quite a few serious health problems. This is the last thing she needs. Any advice please - thanks

Well quite Aeroflot. Although I doubt he does, as the behaviour sounds entirely in character from what OP describes.

OP, I feel so sorry for your family and, of course, especially your niece. Dreadful.

Like others I thought it might be dementia, however, for the moment I think that's a side issue.

Fortunately I have no experience but feel if you don't want to confront him, then don't. Leave him out. Do what you want to do and take charge. Ring your Mum saying you suspect it is dementia and he should get himself to the GP. I suspect he'll go ape-shit at such a suggestion. Explain you want to protect your niece and your own children. Apology not accepted and you won't be visiting. Further, you are supporting your sister in doing the same.

There's no easy way to do this, it will be painful and the pain you feel just shows what a lovely person you are by still loving him, despite everything.

If he beat you as children, dominated his wife and is now tearing into his grandchildren then he is, and never was, a good man. It could be the trigger your Mum needs to take up the offer to live with you. What a happy solution that would be.

Take care.

Very well said, ShiveryTimbers. I agree 100%.

I'm so sorry.

All I can say is put your attention towards:
niece's needs first
then your own
then sister and mum
last of all df

So think lots about what you and dsis are going to say to niece, because there must be a big risk that she will get the wrong end of the stick, blame herself for family split, etc,etc.

Practical steps? In a way, it's an individual thing, but I'd treat it similar to how I dealt with the break up of a relationship with a manipulative narc. Write a list of the things your 'd'F has done and said. Not all of them, just some of the most hurtful or which stick out in your memory. The same for some of the ways your mother let her children down or did not protect you all. Keep the lists near the phone or on your person. That way when the manipulative or emotional phone calls come you can whip them out and read to refresh your memory and strengthen you. Memorize the phrase "I love you Mum, and you're always welcome here. But I will NOT discuss Dad with you. You know my decision and I am not changing my mind. Now let's change the subject or I will have to end this phone call/visit".

Block your dad's phone/email, although I'm sure he lets your mum do his dirty work. Return any letters from him or packages unopened. Return any from your mum that have appeals from him included.

You and your siblings will have to stand together. Lean on each other. Remind each other why you are doing this. It's not really for you, is it? It's for your children and their children. Because these things have long legacies.

I have similar. My Dad says such things to my eldest in the name of "teasing". Because he loves her, he thinks it is OK. She just turned 13. It is not OK and we go through stages of keeping away and seeing Mum only. I shout at him when he does it and we leave (we don't shout in our house but in this case I think it's appropriate). When he misses out he gets better but then it starts again.

This grandfather is also like a toddler, he never learnt to control tantrums. Treat him with consequences. My brother doesn't get involved but if it was happening to my sister I would collude and say right we all stay away from him for a month or whatever. All or nothing. Or take away something else important to him.

Actually reading more, it sounds like the temper is more regular and worse than I thought. Perhaps initial NC for a month then see where things lie and what action he takes over his situation. You don't have to decide everything now.

poppy

I have shown my sister this thread and it has been a huge help reading all of the posts. We both feel a bit sad to be honest that it has come to this, but I know I don't want my dc growing up in such a toxic environment. The collusion aspect bothers me the most.

I am sorry you are going through this as well. It puts a massive strain on all the family.

I am worried we will fall into the cycle you have described with various degrees of escalation each time, for us I don't think that is an option.

It worries me dn and other dc will grow up thinking it is acceptable to behave really badly, apologise or be punished and then he just comes back and does the same all over again. It reminds me of a domestic violence cycle. I wouldn't want the dc to normalise that kind of family dynamic. So for us, at least I think he has crossed the red line.

Better for me to deal with the loss of my father than to deal to deal with the toxic legacy he will hand to my dc, and their future relationships and children. I could not bear to see this carry on through the generations.

We have a responsibility to our dc and to our future gc to put a stop to this. I would rather take the hit than run the risk.

I really can't bear 'teasing' and 'winding up' like that. You need to have built a huge amount of trust in a relationship for 'teasing' to be received in good fun. If you don't, it's just bullying that has been minimised. The sort of type who is forever 'winding people up' and considers it hilarious never seems capable of being kind and considerate as well. It's all about power and control, and if anyone doesn't like it, they're told it's their problem, they're 'too sensitive' and 'i was only winding you up'. Pathetic behaviour

It reminds me of a domestic violence cycle.

I believe it is.

bitofanamechange

In the same sense that a relationship between a man and woman becomes violent. I should have been more clear.

To those who're wondering if it might be dementia because he's started being abusive to a grandchild, having spent years being abusive to his own daughters, and very probably his wife - it seems much more likely that his behaviour has changed because his granddaughter is becoming a young woman.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Poor girl, what a horrible thing to happen. Plan happy things to do with your lovely family and don't let this horrible man's behaviour damage the life his grandchildren have with you.

My Dad says such things to my eldest in the name of "teasing". Because he loves her, he thinks it is OK. She just turned 13. It is not OK

Yes - its not OK. These men are misogynistic bullies unsettled and restless by the fact that these girls are turning into young women

I wish some parents knew the trauma caused by forcing girls to still be in contact with these utter bastards simply due to them being blood relatives. There are forums on here full of parents wondering why their DCs have cut them off - THIS is one of the reasons why and it happens far too often. It needs to stop

Women were once girls we know the score ffs stop letting these men un-nerve, scare, bully your daughters!

OP - its good you're thinking about it but I wish your sister would. In your shoes I'd have nothing whatsoever to do with that man and I wouldn't over-think strategies on making this come about or how it will pan out either

These men do their shit as and when they feel like it no qualms about upsetting anyone else, and then women pussyfoot around trying to cause as least fuss as possible?

What a world

Agree seeing and have said the same uothread.

Your niece is becoming a woman and as such needs to be controlled and under his authority by being belittled and humiliated. He is following the pattern he set with your mum.

Glad you breaking the cycle op. It’s a great pity your mum couldn’t have done so for you and dsis but you and dsis can. you have the control and not him.

Your mum has to make her own choices and you meaner know your example of independence and strength and not taking shit from him may inspire her to leave him too.

poppy he doesn’t love her he really doesn’t.

Keep her away from him.

Suffers from depression? Probably get flamed for this but sounds like an excuse to justify his behaviour. He's abusive.

jakeyboy

The thing is he probably is depressed, depressed at the way he has treated people all of his life, people that have loved him and cared for him and stood by him whatever it cost them. I would feel mighty depressed if I had spent fifty years being a bully and hurting small kids and young women.

He’s depressed because his authority is diminishing by age and situation.

He feels his control on his women folk is slipping away and he doesn’t like it. Being the alpha male made him feel strong and invincible.

He now sees the girjs he used to be able to control and bully stand up to him as women and so he vented his rage on his granddaughter.

He’s not clinically depressed at all he’s angry that he’s lost his control.

Totally agree Theresa. I know a few older parents like this, my own parents and ILs among them. They needed to keep the kids in their place and used their dependence and vulnerability to make themselves feel good. That all gets much harder when the kids get older and more independent and they resent them for it

I've namechanged to write this because I think someone from school recognised me from something I'd written about mufti days!

Anyway, your father sounds identical to mine. I'm one of four children and the only one to come out relatively unscathed from our upbringing. My brother's children ended up living with our parents and he treated his daughters the same way as he treated us and has really damaged them.

I started asking my mum to leave him when I was 6 but she wouldn't. Her desire to keep the family together only enabled him to carry on. Sometimes I've felt more angry with her than him.

I kept my children at a good distance from my Dad. The amount of time they've spent in their company without me present has been minimal because I knew I couldn't trust him not to kick off and I definitely couldn't trust her to keep them safe. It's sad for Mum because she hasn't been able to build a close relationship with them but that's the choice she made.

My Dad now has dementia and Mum is stuck looking after him. I'm the only one of his children who bothers with him and that's only really to give my Mum a break. He's easier to be with now he has dementia.

It's actually a massive relief to read a post like yours. It's such a familiar situation it makes me feel more normal, iyswim. I'm glad you have a sister you can talk to about it. My siblings are all so damaged that I can't talk to them about it or rely on them at all.

Lottapianos describes the bullying I experienced throughout childhood to a T. Constant teasing and mocking and then being told I was too sensitive when I cried.

It has taken until my 40s to recognise it fully, having had depression on and off since my teens. I have zero self esteem. I trust no one fully.

Theresamayscough also describes the diminishing of old age very accurately. As soon as he could no longer control me, when I married someone he does not approve of, he turned his nastiness on my DC and tried to get to me through them. I decided not to expose them to this and told my siblings, who have in turn told my mother. In his old age, he has become diminished as his DC's family units remain strong and he becomes weakened and marginalised.

Exactly so.

And funnily enough ‘:some’ of these men are wonderful with small children.small children are totally under control and worship you. Such men love that and usually idolise their young dds usually trying to turn those dds against mum by calling her ‘silly mummy’ or belittling her. They like to share secrets that exclude mummy.

They only become monsters when those small children, usually girls but not always, become older and start to challenge and have opinions.

This leads to physical and emotional abuse and a huge desire to master and control.

It’s more commen than people think. .

The one thing I would say for anyone considering staying with an emotionally abusive DP or DH this is the outcome.

This is how it will look in fifty years time.

Generations of sad and distressed damaged children and adults. It is a very sobering thought.

travelator

We come from the same place. I used to plead with my dm to leave as well, and dream about escaping and it just being us. It never happened although I know she did consider it. I didn't want to get married or have children because I was too scared it would happen all over again.

It is awful that your df has damaged your nieces, how awful to have to stand by and watch it happen all over again. I hope they have come through it okay?