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Original poster

How to stop brexit and make Britain great again

288 replies

SupportTheresaElseBoris · 09/10/2017 20:53

So Nick Clegg has a new book out called How to stop brexit and make Britain great again.

Aibu to think its time to just get on with brexit and stop this uncertainty? It didn't work for the lib Dems at the ellection and it now seems like dragging it on for as long as possible will make the worst of a bad situation.

OP posts:
Fresh8008 · 10/10/2017 20:54

The UK is a representative democracy. British citizens voted for the Members of Parliament at that time. Those MP's voted either for or against the act which ratified the Maastricht Treaty.

A representative democracy is like a 'work in progress' because MP's decisions can be reversed at the next election. We were signed up to Maastricht without the support of the population. You could say MPs slipped it through the back door. So stretching democracy. Where was the referendums we were promised back then?

If they had a referendum at that time then it would have had more legitimacy. They didn't and this is the backlash of voters who didn't find the whole thing 'democratic'.

To be honest @Fresh8008, you haven’t given us remainers any ‘real concerns’ No, you just don't like/accept/agree with our concerns. and so Brexit will go on until leavers are heard.

histinyhandsarefrozen · 10/10/2017 20:55

The concerns of ordinary people are NOT going to be met by leaving the eu.

It is extraordinary that people still have this idea (from this thread alone) that brexit means a well staffed nhs, fewer immigrants, no more queues at the gp, better housing - it really is absolutely extraordinary.

Theworldisfullofidiots · 10/10/2017 20:59

James Dyson is making his electric car in Malaysia. He loved the EU until he fell out with them about hoover testing.
The EU asked him to solve the hoover testing problem. He didn't come up with any solutions so he campaigned for leave.

Willowy · 10/10/2017 21:07

I’m sorry Fresh but you still haven’t given any real concerns. It’s all well and good to say they are ‘not accepted’ etc but you don’t really elaborate on your point. Repeating the same old thing doesn’t make a good point.

I’m fairly interested in how Brexit affects the Horizon2020 program. That’s a genuine concern of mine. And the answers are ‘speculative’ according to the brexit-funding website and haven’t reached any formal conclusion yet. But hey ho, as long as we’re not being dictated to by an EU super state, who cares, right?

RandomlyGenerated · 10/10/2017 21:10

Dyson campaigned for Leave - but he would still like his £1.6 million CAP payments to continue.

www.fwi.co.uk/news/brexiteer-dyson-warns-government-not-cut-farm-subsidies.htm

Fresh8008 · 10/10/2017 21:22

A lot of people didn’t bat an eyelid at the EU til some jumped-up tax dodging toff who ‘loves a pint’ cropped up telling us we should hate it.
That just isn't true. Farage was banging on about the EU for decades with no one paying him any attention.

sorry, Willowy if you don't like my concerns, if you ever open your mind I will explain them to you. My point doesn't have to be a good one (although I believe it to be) to be addressed because a majority of voters agree with me.

Willowy · 10/10/2017 21:25

Fresh I’m open to being debated with. But I feel like you haven’t said anything in particular that bothers you about the EU. It comes across as vague.

James Dyson. Another hypocrite.

Willowy · 10/10/2017 21:29

And yup, 17000 Leave voters can’t be wrong Hmm

Doramaybe · 10/10/2017 21:30

Farage is a total hypocrite. Seat in the EU Parliament and laughing at us for listening to his inanity about the EU being toxic.

Should have resigned his seat there so.

Fresh8008 · 10/10/2017 21:35

Willowy, actually you just expressed one of the things I hate about the EU. And that is the belief that you automatically have to be in it unless you have a good enough reason to leave, and even then you might not be allowed to. I come from a different perspective of believing unless there is a good enough reason to be in it then the UK is pretty good as it is thank you very much.

And for years all we have heard is that the UK can't look after itself, there will be WW3 the day after we vote to leave etc. And what happened the day after the vote... the pound devalued a bit, which is arguably a good thing. So still to be convinced.

Not sure what James Dyson has has to do with Brexit. Their are rich people everywhere on every side, all trying to play the system. Richard Branson anyone?

Winebottle · 10/10/2017 21:40

Whatever happens we cannot go back to before the vote. Stopping brexit will not reduce uncertainty. The country will be even more divided than it is now and the parliamentary system will be called into question.

We cannot have a democracy where democratic votes are ignored. There would have to be constitutional changes.

Willowy · 10/10/2017 21:41

Yes but you also believe things will turn out well AFTER we have left: a lot of people don’t believe this will be the case, our regulations and rights are intrinsically tied up in the EU and are there for a valid reason, from workers rights, to food and pharmaceutical regulation, all sorts of things. We will be completely throwing them away. They will be stripped back one by one (at the hands of the tories probably). We will become a tax haven for the super rich.

The pound devalued after the referendum but we haven’t actually left yet. Only then will we realise the full scale of the mess that has to be cleared up.

RandomlyGenerated · 10/10/2017 21:43

Not sure what James Dyson has has to do with Brexit.

Really?

ImminentDisaster · 10/10/2017 21:44

We will be spending millions just to recreate the agencies and regulations we already have. It's such a disgusting waste, plus there will be no time or capacity in government departments to consider all the other problems.

Willowy · 10/10/2017 21:46

I think a lot of regs will be stripped right back. Trade deals with US can only mean that.

HateIsNotGood · 10/10/2017 21:50

Haven't RTWT, but you go Cleggy with your book. DavCam (husband of Sam) has got some spiffing theories too. Something to do with rewriting or recreating the EU post-Brexit so that it's an Institution that works well for the BR that voted Exit.

Superdooper, leaving the Head Girl to take the flak whilst you both.....well, don't.

Fresh8008 · 10/10/2017 21:59

but you also believe things will turn out well AFTER we have left:

I believe the UK has a right to try and make it on its own before we accept being subsumed by the EU superstate. If I am wrong I will accept the end of the UK as an independent country. But I don't want to do it without trying to stand on own own feet first. Its a risk but I don't think its a big risk. And I think its an important risk to take. Its called democracy.

Willowy · 10/10/2017 22:02

Fresh, if you are wrong it will be too late by then I feel. It’s a huge gamble where nobody really knows the odds. I hope for everyone’s sake we can make a great future outside of the EU. But I’m just not filled with confidence.

BowlingShoes · 10/10/2017 22:05

Not sure what James Dyson has has to do with Brexit.

He seems to think he has a lot to do with it, going by the number of public comments he has felt the need to make on the subject.

Winebottle · 10/10/2017 22:09

We will be spending millions just to recreate the agencies and regulations we already have. It's such a disgusting waste, plus there will be no time or capacity in government departments to consider all the other problems.

They are short term issues. Government will cope because they will have to and in 5 years the cost will have been saved in contributions.

Fresh8008 · 10/10/2017 22:15

Willowy, I get that remainers feel its a gamble but I feel its a gamble the other way. Maybe it might be more certain accepting the EU but that doesn't mean its a good thing. There is a LOT to be said for independence. If it doesn't work there is the lifeboat of going back to the EU and accepting full unconditional membership of everything they dictate.

He seems to think he has a lot to do with it, going by the number of public comments FFS everyone affected has made a lot of pubic comments.

Willowy · 10/10/2017 22:15

Winebottle - government will cope because they have to. Meanwhile lots of funding that various companies and institutes receive will grind to a halt. They will not cope.

Government will cope with anything because they are never at the forefront when the proverbial hits the fan.

ImminentDisaster · 10/10/2017 22:15

Yes, the government are absolutely brilliant at rolling out new systems aren't they? Hmm

Sincerely doubt there is going to be anything left from those contributions you speak of even ten years on.

Willowy · 10/10/2017 22:17

Fresh - if we have to climb back into bed with the EU because we can’t survive outside of it, we will have to probably adopt the Euro as a currency. Also we’d need the other member states to ratify us rejoining. It may not happen. Just throwing that out there.

Theworldisfullofidiots · 10/10/2017 22:19

Fresh it's a massive risk.
One that only just half those that voted wanted. It was an advisory ill thought out Referendum masquerading as democracy.
As our demography changes by 2019 we will be pushed into something that the majority don't want.
So that in itself is a massive risk, let alone anything else.