DD accused of being a bully

[Schoolgatemom]

Recently got a text from a mum at school telling me that her DD (12) was being verbally abused by my DD (12), that it was going on for weeks, could I please talk to my DD. Of course I was horrified and spoke to my DD who was also horrified. She denied it and cried herself to sleep saying she couldn't believe her friend could accuse her of bullying. Anyway, I contacted the school, spoke to counsellor who spoke to my daughter and confirmed that my DD "does not fully understand what she is doing that is not syncing well' with this girl and that she would benefit from sitting down and talking to this other girl. Counsellor proposed a meeting with herself and 2 girls (neutral person, neutral setting) but other parents refused. They told the counsellor that my DD "is fully aware of what is going on and they just want it to stop". My DD approached the other girl herself and asked for clarification, she was told that the comment she made last week about this girl finishing her lunch quickly was made 'in a bullying way.' DD apologised and explained that she had not meant anything by the comment, it was just an observation. Since then nothing more has been mentioned but my DD has woken up at night with bad dreams about this girl and has developed physical ticks (which she does when she is stressed). The other parents obviously don't want to engage but I feel that my DD has been treated unfairly. They dropped a bombshell on our family and then walked away. My DD has been deprived of any chance to clear her name or refute the accusations. Any advice?

I don't think 'bullying' is a one off comment. I'm not saying OP's DD did make a snarky comment about the other girl's lunch, but even if she had, a one off mean comment does not constitute bullying in my opinion.

Bullying is sustained unpleasantness, unkindness & victimising of another person.

People get their knickers in a twist and get very fearful when the term "bullying" is used, more often than not because it is used incorrectly. Kids at school will have disagreements & occasionally be mean to each other and that doesn't mean there is bullying involved.

OP you need to get a FULL understanding from school as to what they think is going on. Don't correspond with the other parents in any way about this at all. Get the school to tell you what they think may be happening in a detailed way that you can understand - no flannel about counselling or not syncing - you need facts.

Margo
It wasnt a one off. It was going on for "weeks"

According to whom bruffin? DD says one thing, other girl's mother says another thing. This is why OP needs school to fully disclose what they think is going on.

MargoLoveButter it wasn't a one off comment. The other girl said that, and the counsellor also seems to think something is going on too.

Recently got a text from a mum at school telling me that her DD (12) was being verbally abused by my DD (12), thatched it was going on for weeks, could I please talk to my DD

*that it was. Not thatched. Bloody phone.

JonSnow, but OP doesn't know exactly what is going on - that's my point. Was it a one off comment or something going on for ages? Her DD said one thing, the other girl's mother something else & the school have not given a proper explanation of what they think 'may be going on'.

toffeelate you said Horrified by this. You do realise this is exactly what abusive people do in mediation thereby using the mediation session to perpetuate the abuse!!! but you are wrong to assume that this is always the case otherwise mediations wouldn't be used by schools or by employers at all. My employer at the time was a large commercial entity with absolutely excellent HR department and a very, very contented well managed staff. My involvement in the mediation was only because one of the secretaries was my secretary.
The mediation was handled by HR. There was no abuse in that situation, I truly believe to the bottom of my heart. I know abuse can happen and when it does it is hellish. I know bullying can happen. But sometimes lesser things get out of hand. I had assumed that this was the case here because the school (and you are advocating the school handles it going forward so presumably you do have some confidence in them) had suggested mediation. If one child couldn't face having a meeting with the other child then she could ask to speak to the counsellor alone but the key thing was that it was being seen as something which could be resolved.

Also situations where I think my dc were being bullied - eg at the age of 6 my ds had the door of his toilet opened and closed repeatedly by older children while he was on the toilet doing his business, and he got upset and asked them to stop, go away and they didn't - in the following couple of days they kept teasing him - I would say that is bullying. I got him to speak to his teacher, and she sorted it out. There have been times when my dc have gone overboard and although they haven't been accused of bullying their behaviour has not been ok, and I have apologised to parents and spoken to the school. You get a feel for things, knowing when your child is very stressed and knowing when they know that they themselves have overstepped the mark.

As I say, here the school was suggesting mediation.

I personally would make contact with the other parent if they had contacted me, to show that I am not ignoring or minimising it, but to clarify that in future the school must deal so that I were not living in dread of another text. But it is just a suggestion, it isn't a one size fits all.

I've had experience at the parent of the other child.

Having moved form to get away from the bully who was telling all the others to exclude dd, we had a fairly quiet few months. Unfortunately they then mixed up one of the groups and put in together again.

Dd managed to avoid her for a bit, then she started saying loudly that dd was "incompetent due to her disability". It started as whispers, then she started saying it loudly in front of everyone. And to dd's surprise actually this time people stood up for dd and the group went to the head of year about it.
I then got a message from the head of year to say the bully "feels that she had been totally misinterpreted and it was upsetting her that people were judging her on it." and suggested we met as parents and children to discuss it.

I was severely unimpressed and pointed out several things. Firstly, as he had witnesses to what was said, how could it possibly have been interpreted as anything that wasn't unpleasant. Secondly, when she was telling lies (and I have witnesses that said she was) about dd the previous year she wasn't too worried about people judging dd, so why should dd have to sympathise with that when the bully had convicted herself with her own mouth.
And thirdly I was not prepared to meet and put dd in the situation where she would have to relive it again.

Further investigation went into the situation, which was easy as there were plenty of witnesses, including teachers. Then the bully was asked to write a letter of apology, and the mum refused to let her and kept her off school to avoid it because she was "so upset at having to apologise". Which was good in the long run because it meant that it became immediately clear that she was unreasonable because if it had been a genuine misunderstanding then the natural reaction would be to apologise and finish it.

Nasty child, nasty parents clearly.

Now my point is that the actual situation had been going on for a long time, and things had been said for well over a year. But it focussed on one because there were plenty of witnesses and clearly unacceptable.
I'm sure the parents were saying "it's just one remark" and "she didn't mean anything by it". I think the phrase "there isn't malicious bone in her" came out too. But it had been an ongoing campaign in which dd had moved away and compromised to avoid it several times and this was just the first time she was really called out on it.

@Witchend .

I'm so glad I managed to get my DD in a school away from where all her bullies were going to be. If only it was an option for us all.

I hate it when people get labelled as 'over-sensitive', it's a cop out used to excuse nastiness.

I could be wrong of course - I don’t know your DD - but there are very very many ways to deliver a sentence.

“Ooh you ate that quickly! You must have been hungry!” - harmless observation.

“Ate that a bit quickly didn’t you?!” 😏🙄 If said to someone you’ve been making PA comments about their weight to for weeks - not harmless... but easy to dress up, in wide-eyed innocence, as harmless.

You never can tell 😏

I have no idea what has gone on between the two 11 year olds or who is to blame for what, and yes bullying is not acceptable and nor is victim blaming, but the OP has asked for advice here, and objectively the OP said that she was horrified and then went to talk to the school, agreed for her dd to see a counsellor and went along with the counsellor's advice that further work was needed, ie all fairly sensible things in the circs (whether her dd could have been seen as bullying or not, and it is impossible to tell from this thread).

Whereas the other child's parent sent a text (not ideal) and has since refused to engage with the school's suggestion without proposing an alternative solution (not ideal) and has said basically "you know what you did" (not at all ideal) and that is it, and it is that which is bothering the OP (I thought).

I why should everyone suddenly take this other girls say so that’s she’s being bullied OP knows her dd and if she believes her then that’s what matters.

Sometimes teenagers lie to get their own way, this happened to me at school a girl said that I and another friend were bullying her and the head called us all in and our parents to sort it out and she ended up crying and admitted it was all lies. She was jealous of us and wanted to bring us down.

I wouldn’t be so sure that’s not what has happened here. The blanket response to always believe people who say they have been bullied is not the best approach, a proper look at all the “weeks” of events claimed by her parents, you should ask the school to ascertain exactly what has happened because your dd being labelled and it disrupting her education is not fair if she’s done nothing wrong

Yes BlueSapp, that was what happened with my GC. Child who was apparently his friend started putting nasty stuff on social media, my GC said nothing just stopped playing with that child. The "friend" then got upset and accused my GC of bullying, his parents phoned my DIL, quoting the bullying and saying they had witnesses. We checked social media and took screenshots of the abuse, the "witnesses" were questioned at school, the screenshots were looked at and the "distressed victim" got detention for lying. I absolutely agree with you that you have to look at the series of events.

OP, that fact is that your dd did not deny what she has said.

So she should accept that regardless of her intent, she has hurt someone's feelings and needs to think before she speaks.

Hurting someone's feelings isn't bullying. You can hurt someone's feelings with one thoughtless remark, bullying is sustained and malicious.

@grannytomine was that in reply to me? Either way the dd has hurt someone and needs to realise it is unacceptable.

The mother has said it's been going on for weeks. The op needs to arrange a meeting with the school to find out more about what has been said about what her daughter has done.

The reason the parents won't engage is because, all you are interested in is 'clearing your daughter's name' or 'telling her side of the story'. They are not seeking punishment, just asking your daughter to keep away from their daughter. Just tell her to stay away

pale, the OP doesn't really need a meeting to clarify anything. She just needs to tell her dd to stay away

Your DD has apologised and the child and her parents do not want to engage any further, any further contact will be construed as harassment. The child and her parents are not obligated to do anything more.

Instead of turning this into a ‘my child’s been falsely accused drama’, how about turning it into an opportunity to work with the counsellor. It is not the other girl’s responsibility to help your DD navigate social settings, it’s yours and continuing to focus on this girl is probably doing more harm than good to both children.

Let it go and support your DD by helping her in the areas she struggles with.

Great post isetan

OP how is your dd doing?

I find it so strange so many posters believe the other girl! Whatever has gone on, I hope both girls will be fine and hope you can do your bit to help your own dd to move on successfully.

It doesn’t sound to me like there is any evidence your daughter had been bullying this other girl and without the other side providing specific comments, etc how can you know?

I was accused of bullying when I was 13 by a girl I had been friends with when we were younger. The truth was I had moved on and made new friends and this girl (who looking back probably had ASD) didn’t understand why I wasn’t spending as much time with her. Her mother told the neighbourhood how I was refusing to sit with her daughter at dinner and how I lead all of the girls at the table to literally turn their backs when her daughter came over. The opposite was true. I made the girls move to a table with an extra seat for this girl even though nobody else wanted to associate with her. I always included her at school bc I felt bad for her.

So for everyone who was saying that the op’s daughter was definitely a bully and the victim would not make it up, this simply isn’t true. I work with secondary students now and there are accusations of bullying all the time and sometimes are unfounded. Usually because the child is attention seeking in some way.

Other posters may find it strange that you believe the OP's daughter Italiangreyhound.