DD accused of being a bully

[Schoolgatemom]

Recently got a text from a mum at school telling me that her DD (12) was being verbally abused by my DD (12), that it was going on for weeks, could I please talk to my DD. Of course I was horrified and spoke to my DD who was also horrified. She denied it and cried herself to sleep saying she couldn't believe her friend could accuse her of bullying. Anyway, I contacted the school, spoke to counsellor who spoke to my daughter and confirmed that my DD "does not fully understand what she is doing that is not syncing well' with this girl and that she would benefit from sitting down and talking to this other girl. Counsellor proposed a meeting with herself and 2 girls (neutral person, neutral setting) but other parents refused. They told the counsellor that my DD "is fully aware of what is going on and they just want it to stop". My DD approached the other girl herself and asked for clarification, she was told that the comment she made last week about this girl finishing her lunch quickly was made 'in a bullying way.' DD apologised and explained that she had not meant anything by the comment, it was just an observation. Since then nothing more has been mentioned but my DD has woken up at night with bad dreams about this girl and has developed physical ticks (which she does when she is stressed). The other parents obviously don't want to engage but I feel that my DD has been treated unfairly. They dropped a bombshell on our family and then walked away. My DD has been deprived of any chance to clear her name or refute the accusations. Any advice?

My sister was bullied via false allegations of bullying. It took months to resolve, including my mother attending meetings at school to resolve my sister's "behaviour" and my sister spending break and lunch in isolation. It only stopped when the perpetrator messed up and made allegations that couldn't possibly be true as my sister had an iron clad alibi. At that point the real bully broke down when confronted about her lies. Turns out it was all about jealousy and attention seeking through her parents divorce. My sister's name was cleared, but you don't get the time in isolation back.
20 years later, similar happened to myself and a colleague. False accusations of bullying in the work place to cover up for the accuser's incompetence.
This is of course anecdotal, but means that I will always listen to both sides in such cases and rugger others do the same.

*suggest

Your DD needs to do is cease all contact with this girl, don’t talk to her or about her again.

It’s a simple solution and all that the other girl and their family want. Your DD has made their DD’s life hell, fgs just leave them alone now.

Dd had a friend who was alway making "observations" she used to say "thats what im like" when pulled up on it.
She was a bully but always played innocent and even the victim.

I think you need to talk to the school to understand more what's going on. I do agree that constant observations can appear as a character assassination 'look how quickly she ate her lunch', 'look how she runs', 'did you see her new trainers' etc etc. Whilst they are 'just' observations, they're not very nice, and the other girl will feel victimised.

Until you seek further information from the school you'll never know though. For what it's worth, I think the counsellors comment was the referring to the fact your daughter didn't understand what she'd done wrong, not that she hadn't done anything wrong.

Some posters are leaping to huge conclusions here. We don't know what's going on. Maybe DD is being a bully, maybe the other girl is over sensitive or attention seeking.

DD needs to steer clear of her in future to avoid further accusations. Also ask for more clarification of what the so-called bullying consisted of.

I had an issue in Year 7. I had shocked at the online comments. I screenshot whataspp and sent it to HoY. Ds1 begged me not to. They offered to sit the 2 boys down. I refused. How was that going to help? They get on ok now.

I'll probably get flamed for this, but the term bullying gets thrown around way more easily now than ever before.
We've all had fallings out with friends when we were children, exchanged comments and got over it a day or so later. Perhaps your daughter was unkind on a couple of occasions, doesn't mean it's bullying. Perhaps the other girl has also been unkind on a couple of occasions. Perhaps she is incredibly sensitive and your daughter has made an innocent comment (btw, just tell her that it's not appropriate to pass comments on other people). There are any number of reasons why this exchange has happened.
But bullying is very serious. A girl in my school attempted suicide as a result of bullying. It needs to be dealt with every time but I don't think it's fair to say that every negative exchange is bullying.

I totally agree we th you sayyouwill I think the term bullying can be used far too lightly. There is a difference between constant deliberate ridicule and flippant or insensitive remarks. Kids have always fallen out, part of school is learning to rub along with people you don't necessarily like. Some people are more sensitive to others, some people need to learn to be more diplomatic with how they phrase things. I mean look at Mumsnet!! We're all bullies if we don't agree??? OP, keep a diary and speak to your daughter. She may need to learn to have more empathy but equally the other party might need to learn something resilience. You have done he right thing with school so now try and let things be as the ball is back in their court.

Totally disagree. Yes the Term ‘bullying’ can be used too lightly and flippantly.

But, I’m not sure it is being used too lightly in this case.

The term ‘bullying’ refers to persistent / repeated actions. Not a one off.

Now this girl may indeed be oversensitive, but the claim that she’s made so far (and to be fair we don’t know any of the details - so, previous posters have advised op to ask the school for the exact details of what the apparent offences are )

at the moment , the girl claims they have been repeated instances, and it has been going on “for weeks”.

that implies sustained issues and that, in itself is indeed bullying.

Okay. I'll try and be gentle. Sort if I'm not.

OP. My DD was severely bullied, to the point we scrimped and scraped to get her moved schools and she needed counselling. There was a group of them. One, the ringleader, would always tell their Mum that my DD was bullying them. It was always believed.

My DD still has nightmares two years on. With everything that went on and there was a lot of everything. I never once exchanged texts with anyone. I always went through the school.

You must also do this. Do not reply to any more texts and block the number if you can. (DDs bullies parents are pre-emptively blocked in every single possible way via facebook and my phone etc and thankfully she goes to a school miles away from most of them) and leave the school to continue dealing with it.

You mentioned the lunchtime comment but I'm getting the impression that that is not the first comment. There is something called STOP which is helpful - Several Times On Purpose. Yes children should have the ability to make most things go over their head but when that little thing becomes 20 little things for a child to deal with it's going to affect them.

*sorry if I'm not not sort.

I was part of a mediation at work once between 2 secretaries, and bullying was mentioned. It was apparent afterwards that both sides felt exactly the same, and were even using similar words to describe how they were feeling about what was going on

Horrified by this. You do realise this is exactly what abusive people do in mediation thereby using the mediation session to perpetuate the abuse!!!

This is exactly what my exh used to do through all forms of communication inc email cafcass and court. The matter of who was the bully was only settled when he actually caused injury. It's why mediation is not appropriate in cases of bullying.

I'd be asking the school to keep an eye on the situation. I'd be checking with my daughter how much realistically the twos kids paths actually had to cross. I'd be telling the school that if told do its best to leave well alone and could they assist be ensuring their need to interact was minimal (class seating plans group work)

I'd point out the need to walk away from the other children nd any mutual friends or leave herself open to having to defend herself further

Yes block everything social media etc. And what Jon snows wife said

If your DD is innocent, you need to teach her to avoid all but the most neutral contact with this other girl.

If she is bullying - and, to be honest, it sounds like she might be - she needs to understand the impact of her actions and change. It shouldn't take a face-to-face with the victim to do this: she should have the empathy, at her age, to be able to put herself in the other girl's shoes.

In both cases, it needs to be treated as a life lesson and not as an eternal moral judgement on your DD's character. She is way young, and still has plenty of growing and changing to do.

It's why mediation is not appropriate in cases of bullying.

I agree. The main bully who told my DD on a camping trip they were going to beat her up, lock her in a dungeon, and leave her to die because no one listened to her anyway. If I had to sit in a mediation meeting and listen to how they 'didn't realise what they were saying', it's safe to say I'd have lost my shit, big time.

My DD still cant sleep with her door shut.

OP is it possible your DD could be teasing and it is being construed as bullying? I have no idea if they do it in secondary school but in DSs primary school they run a brilliant Elsa (no not her from Frozen) course for children who struggle socially. May it be an idea going in to the school asking them how you can help? (and yes, encourage your DD to sit and keep away from the other girl until it is resolved).

Jonsnowswife makes my blood boil just reading that.

My friend's tiny year 7 boy was being repeatedly bullied by an older thuggish lad on the way home from school. She identified which one it was, followed him into the newsagents and not sure what she did next but shall we say the bullying stopped from that moment on. I know officially "wrong" but still.

Must be awful too if your child is the bully. Its the parents refusing to accept that as even a possibility that gets me.

I don't know why people are assuming the OPs daughter is a bully. She might be but the other girl might be lying, it happens. I think it is wrong to jump to conclusions and I say that as the mother of a daughter who was suicidal at 10 due to the bullying she was subject to. It is important to listen to both sides.

I'm not. My advice would be the same in either case.

Of course she may not be we don't know. But to refuse to see that even as a possibility is not right either.

I know children who have been acussed of bullying because they have avoided a person and just played with their own friends. The person they avoided was bullying (hitting) the child who then decided to avoid them. The school took the bullies side that actively avoiding the bully was bullying by the victim and instructed the child to play with the bully or face missing break.

It seems to become such a tangled web in some cases and it's not always the right person who is punished.

grannytomine I fan see it from both sides.

The fallout from what DD has been through means she how has a very low tolerance level and a very short fuse. I used to go nuclear on her every time she had had an argument with a friend, she, of all people, knows how shit school feels when you've been the subject of a long bullying campaign. It wasn't until a friend who works with CAMHs made me see that it is now her defense mechanism, snap back first and scare them off, that way the old keeping quite and still nothing changes won't mean there is more of the same. (I know that's rambling but I hope this makes sense).

Even so. There was once an incident between her and another child who'd been pushing her all day (remember the snap back defence). Where she reacted completely inappropriately. I could have gone in and said I'm not suprised with what she has been through and excuses it but I didn't. I made her apologise to the child in question in a meaningful way, as her reaction was not proportionate to the original 'offence'. School didnt seem overly concerned, as far as they were concerned, was out of character for her, it was dealt with in school, (she lost break time) but I still disciplined her back home (she lost her phone).

The other child's behaviour was not relevant in this case, IMO. My own child's behaviour was and I needed her to know that what she did was not right and I needed to address it. She never did it again.

If I have the OP right. It sounds like they have had both children in separately to get their versions of events. Whilst I understand the OPs frustration completely, it is only fair that they entertain the idea there may be some truth in it. (I don't know how it works in OPs DDs school but in ours these events are often clarified by asking witnesses who were around at the time of the incident). There's probably some truth on both sides.

This thread is fascinating. My ds was bullied and because of the nature of the things that happened it was impossible for the bullies and their parents to deny it. However, the parents still went into complete denial. I often wondered what went through their heads but reading the comments on here, I am more able to understand how they could come to that conclusion.

Thankyou @KERALA1 . We're getting there, step by step.

The ops dd doesn't have to avoid mutual friends while avoiding this girl, that's not fair at all when there is no evidence either way. Being forced to loose her friends when she may have done nothing at all is reduculous.