Strip clubs & Stag dos

[NotInMyBackYard1]

DH went on a stag do in the summer, one night away at a weekend, obvs he came back tired and hungover but said he'd had a good time and didn't go to bed until 630am. I asked which bars stayed open until then but was told they do in Liverpool (?) obviously I am very naive!
Have since found out they were all at a lap dancing club without the stag - he'd gone to bed at midnight. AIBU to think he's bloody disgusting and to have lost all respect for him - for lying by omission and for visiting a lap dancing club in the first place.

'Cool wife' because you're more concerned about men's hurt feelings and them being disrespected for being told they shouldn't be watching women dancing naked (and the rest) while you seem to have so little concern for women trafficked, women abused, women and girls harassed. Or at least less concern as you keep arguing the case for the men and their 'right' for strip clubs.

You and your DH are creating the demand by going, the supply is a very vulnerable group and what they go through is far beyond hurt feelings of a man not being able to access sleaze.

@Bertrand

Do you not see the irony in your last commen?. You can't discount the feelings of some women because others are exploited and do fit your argument.

Wouldn't you say that it's fairer to say that some women aren't exploited. Some women like their work. Some men don't go there for anything worse than titillation etc.

You're guilty of the spotlight fallacy but of course, were likely to be with your agenda.

She has every reason to feel offended because it's an insult.

Haha, thanks Bertrand. Can I pass the baton to you I've got to go out? NoLove is hopefully taking a break from it. It's circular.

DixieFlatline brilliantly put in your post at 15:39 but astounding you had to explain that and someone would compare the right of women and girls not to have to suffer harassment and being demeaned to some men's desire to go to strip clubs.

I think it says a lot that Nancy91 persistently ignores any of the points I've made and my posts in general. It tells me she doesn't care in the slightest how young girls are made to feel by them nor the harassment of teenage girls by these wonderful men who attend strip clubs.

I don't have any choice about being harassed by the sort of man who's on his way to a strip club, of possibly in future going to university and working with men who do, of potentially being excluded from workplace nights out and having my career harmed by them in the future, women and girls have no choice but to exist in the culture they create. That so many women don't care about the impact they have on many girls and our lives and sense of self worth is, as I said, very dispiriting.

How do you know which dancer you/your partner is getting their sexual kicks from hasn't been exploited?

You just don't care really, do you? You're willing to take that risk so you can get your sexual kicks. That's the truth.

Oh and sarcastically calling girls such as myself who hate strip clubs and the culture they force us to live in the "strip club police" and bragging that "they're here to stay" is in the former "name calling" and generally pretty unpleasant in the context of this discussion.

annielouise it was probably just as well I had lessons all afternoon so was unable to check this thread. It's hugely disheartening and frustrating.

It's about as hugely disheartening to be told by a woman with limited life experience how they should think and how they should earn their money I imagine,

Sorry? If you mean me I've been posting at great length my own feelings on the subject. Hardly "how they should think" and how it's telling anyone how to earn their money is beyond me. And no, that's certainly not as disheartening as having the feelings I've long had and first hand experiences of girls i know of harassment by strip club customers dismissed and ignored.

As for "limited life experience" I'd bet that despite my age I've had more life experience than many far older in ways.

Cool wife' because you're more concerned about men's hurt feelings and them being disrespected for being told they shouldn't be watching women dancing naked (and the rest)

Nope. I am concerned for everyone’s feelings being treated in an equal and fair way..... please stop putting words in my mouth. I haven’t said it’s disrespectful to tell a man he can’t watch a woman dance naked, I said it’s disrespectful to suggest that all men (or women) who go to strip clubs are some kind of sleazy perverted scum bags.....

while you seem to have so little concern for women trafficked, women abused, women and girls harassed.

are you deliberately ignoring the whole paragraph I wrote saying I am all for stopping this ?? I just happen to believe there may be other ways of trying to address these things without tarring the whole sex industry with the same brush and demanding it all be shut down.

Or at least less concern as you keep arguing the case for the men and their 'right' for strip clubs.

Again with the putting words in my mouth, please feel free to screen shot and show me where I’ve said men have a ‘right’ to strip clubs....

I know I have read your posts with great interest. They are one side of the story and like others on here you have belittled women who think differently.

1. Because there is no way of knowing which women are exploited and which aren't, no decent man would risk it until such time as it is possible to know. (Some sort of kite mark, possibly?)

1. No decent man who had any respect for women would think it was OK to "rent" their bodies and consent. Unless a man could honestly say he would be happy to see his wife, mother, sister or daughter work in the sex industry he should not be part of it.

and FYI to posters on BOTH SIDES of this debate - resorting to name calling and use of derogatory terms just because someone has a different opinion to you is not cool.

Not cool people.

I think we won the argument, NoLove. I've not seen any particular logic from the other side - just an attempt to justify distinctly dodgy behaviour, to plaster over or perhaps even try and normalise the commoditisation of women.

Even if some women are seemingly unaffected by working in this industry it doesn't make it right or okay. I can't imagine if it was taken away any women would go "aww, I really wanted to be a stripper, that's not fair, I'm so pissed off now!" I also think the ones unaffected are rarer than those affected to varying degrees - not just those that work there but the ripple effect of what we are seeing with schoolgirls being shouted abuse at in the street; women whose partners are spending household money on these places (perhaps with children going hungry); the increase in sexual abuse and rape in the surrounding areas (read that report I put up pages back - rape went up 50% in Camden borough when four strip clubs opened). They can't justify this and still count themselves as a decent member of society.

Looking into this subject and reading round it has reinforced to me how wrong it is, how easy it is for vulnerable people to slip through the nets, so to hear that some people on this thread are trying to justify it is nauseating and not people I would want to know. Sorry, but I do look down on them.

Industry standards would be a definite and most welcome improvement Bertrand

I know I have read your posts with great interest. They are one side of the story and like others on here you have belittled women who think differently.

No I haven't. Stop misrepresenting me. As for "one side of the story" - yeah, the side of the story where I'm explaining how I feel about strip clubs.

even if some women are seemingly unaffected

You've only won the argument because in your head it never existed.

annielouise it was probably just as well I had lessons all afternoon so was unable to check this thread. It's hugely disheartening and frustrating.

Not for me! NoLove your posts are hugely heartening for me and many other women on this thread (although I've told my own teen age daughters they may need to up their intellectual game).

I do find it extraordinary that so many older women on the thread would prefer that a 17 year old bright A-level female student (or "a woman of limited life experience" as somebody so charmingly put it) think strip clubs were just hunky-dory. Really? Even if you are at a point in your life where you have accepted that every man in your life has gone to a strip club (for the drinks of course) don't you think at 17 you are supposed to have more idealistic ideas of what life will be like? Don't you think bright 17 year olds are supposed to question the status quo and want something better? Do you believe the world would be worse off without strip clubs? Would any woman, if designing an ideal society, really say "oh forgot the strip club for men -
that's pretty essential. Let's put it here next to the school"

Skarossinkplunger you obviously haven't read my posts with much interest since you claim I've said things I haven't even mentioned then that I've belittled anyone. Even some who disagree with me have said I've been polite. I imagine you just want to belittle me and undermine my feelings on the subject.

"Nope. I am concerned for everyone’s feelings being treated in an equal and fair way". God. They're not equal pp2017.

On the one side we have people being abused. On the other men's hurt feelings. They're not comparable! One takes precedence over the other - or should! [bangs head against wall]

Oh, and please shut it about something not being cool as if you're oh so reasonable. You're in no position to say that to anyone when you're a consumer in the sex industry.

Because there is no way of knowing which women are exploited and which aren't,

There are some “famous” strip clubs in the UK who have similarly “famous” dancers with avid following on social media - I think it would not be an unreasonable assumption (based on what they post about their lives on social media) that these women are not being abused or exploited...... would it?

no decent man would risk it until such time as it is possible to know. (Some sort of kite mark, possibly?)

Assuming you’re being serious and not sarcastic, this is exactly what I’ve been trying to say - as long as there is demand and WILLING supply then shouldn’t we be campaigning for better regulation and control not demanding it all be stopped, right now....

All I've seen from you Skaross is little barbs. Nothing of substance arguing the other side .

@annielouise

On the one side we have people being abused. On the other men's hurt feelings

Again - not what I said!

I compared FEELINGS with FEELINGS not abuse with feelings - which bit of that is so difficult for you to comprehend?