Strip clubs & Stag dos

[NotInMyBackYard1]

DH went on a stag do in the summer, one night away at a weekend, obvs he came back tired and hungover but said he'd had a good time and didn't go to bed until 630am. I asked which bars stayed open until then but was told they do in Liverpool (?) obviously I am very naive!
Have since found out they were all at a lap dancing club without the stag - he'd gone to bed at midnight. AIBU to think he's bloody disgusting and to have lost all respect for him - for lying by omission and for visiting a lap dancing club in the first place.

And bringing it back constantly to the women who work in the industry is a classic distraction technique.

It's interesting that people get so upset at being called "cool wives" when they fit the definition perfectly. I don't know why they just don't "own" it. What bit of it don't you like?

Because it's used as an insult by women, for women who have different views than them.

It's based on an assumption that women just agree to things because of their husband thus insinuating that these women have no free thought.

On here it's now often a race to see who get it out first, it smacks of mean teenagers and the use of the word 'slut' and if wasn't an insult the phrase wouldn't need to exist.

Just like a balcknoerson has every right to say something is racist or unpleasant and effects them in a negative way then I as a woman can say that strip Clubs and the sex industry in general are misogynistic and have a detrimental effect on girls and women. I don't need to go in one to be allowed that opinion. In feminist groups there is always at least one person who will trot out (the infamous) 'happy hooker' example as a getbout of jail free card for the sex industry. For every 'happy hooker' (dancer, cleaner, carer, dogsbody, underpaid office administrator) there are a thousand that are utterly miserable and are doing it because they absolutely have to.

I've been in one and had more than one private dance and am absolutely with NoLove, U2, Bertrand et al on this matter.

'Cool wives' might be flippant but given your DH going to a strip club provides you with nothing positive (unless it means you don't want a sexual relationship with him and don't care if he has one elsewhere giving you a break from him, or just want him out the house for the night) then why defend or indeed support it? Or even be neutral on it given the evidence I've given upthread shows how pernicious it can be. It can't just be that 'I love my DH so much I just want him to be happy'.

In this day and age men are still treating women as a commodity. And that isn't good for women long term. I'm not talking about individuals now coming on to say I had a great experience, or my friend did, and we had nothing but a positive time of it etc. That's hearsay and isn't conclusive as there is possibility of an element of downplaying things, justifying things, rationalising things. I'm talking about for all women.

Don't know why the phrase "happy hooker" has been used on this thread. Strippers and prostitutes are two separate things you know.

As I said, the clubs are legal. It is something like 1 in 5 (or slightly more) men that have attended them. You certainly are in contact with people who have attended them. If you don't want to associate with that sort of man you will have to start surveying everyone you know and cutting them out accordingly as clearly it shows a character flaw which cannot be redeemed (in your opinion).

Reports show Nancy - and it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to believe it - that there is some overlap.

Equally, a world where women are stripping, a role that is solely for the benefit of men and what they can 'buy'/'rent', is a world that needs to move on, for the benefit of all women, now and in the future.

I don't know how women can continue to support it passively by saying they don't mind it when they know that other women (and girls) are being harmed by this business - whether it's NoLove being harassed as she goes about her business, or women being trafficked, or abused on the job in all its shades (from bad working conditions, not getting all their wages, physical abuse etc). It is not good for women as a whole. No one can say it is. So why support it? Effectively, you're turning a blind eye to suffering. So, yes, I would say 'cool wives' is apt.

Thanks Dixie.

Nancy91 you continue to ignore the points I was making. It's very frustrating and quite dismissive because I have continually explained how it impacts upon myself and many of my peers. It suggests to me you just don't care, which is quite upsetting.

I wholeheartedly empathise with the posters saying how strip clubs can affect women and young girls, and have personally been affected, I can’t and would never try to disregard that.

What has narked me about this thread are some of the generalisations being cast around and the point blank refusal by some posters to even entertain the idea that not every strip club is the same and not every man who visits them is the same.

Do strip clubs make women feel demeaned/objectified? Yes, they can do for some women and I don’t think any one disputes that - but they do not have that same effect on ALL women. Those of us who have said they don’t make us feel that particular way have been “disagreed” with, as though our personal experiences and feelings are somehow incorrect or invalid?

The comments about women feeling pressured to go/accept their husbands going - yes SOME women probably are in that situation and that’s not acceptable, but not ALL women are and there are those of us who have stated we went under of our own free will, and would be happy for our husbands to go yet many posters seem not to be able to comprehend this concept.

According to some posters EVERY man who visits or has ever visited a strip club is some kind of misogynistic pervert - yes there probably are quite a few of those men in there but as none of you have actually met every single man who has ever set foot in a strip club and as you keep telling us, you don’t know any men who do, this is a sweeping generalisation. @NoLoveofMine is the only poster who has actually been able to offer any first hand experience of these type of badly behaved Neanderthals.

There are posters who have given examples of men they know and have met who ARE NOT misogynistic perverts, but again, that seems hard to accept by some posters.

Are there strip clubs that promote trafficking and other illegal activities? Who force women to work there in horrific conditions? Of course there are, and these clubs should be targeted and shutdown. But that does not mean that EVERY strip club is a seedy little joint and the whole industry should be banned.

My point is that everyone reacts to situations/events differently, just because one woman feels demeaned by strip clubs does not mean I have to feel that way. Just because one strip club is seedy does not mean they all are. One man who goes to a club and has no respect for women does not mean that no men who go there do.

n this day and age men are still treating women as a commodity. And that isn't good for women long term. I'm not talking about individuals now coming on to say I had a great experience, or my friend did, and we had nothing but a positive time of it etc. That's hearsay and isn't conclusive as there is possibility of an element of downplaying things, justifying things, rationalising things. I'm talking about for all women.

Well said.

given your DH going to a strip club provides you with nothing positive

How do you know what I do or don’t get from my husband going to a strip club?Again - another sweeping generalisation!

I wholeheartedly empathise with the posters saying how strip clubs can affect women and young girls, and have personally been affected, I can’t and would never try to disregard that.

This is the key point to me grounded in my own experiences and those of girls I know. This is why I am so against the existence of strip clubs. Men being able to go to watch naked women dance somewhere shouldn't be more important than the right of women and girls to feel safe and not be demeaned and have our sense of self worth eroded and it enrages me that it's seen to be.

I really need to stop replying to this thread because it's taken up a huge amount of my time, I'm at school with things to do and having taken all this time to try to make points and have them completely ignored by some is just not beneficial in the slightest. I abhor these clubs and always will for how they make so many girls feel and how they have done to me since I was even younger and every man who's been to one is, to me, someone who's contributed to that culture which is so harmful to many girls.

There are posters who have given examples of men they know and have met who ARE NOT misogynistic perverts, but again, that seems hard to accept by some posters.

According to some posters EVERY man who visits or has ever visited a strip club is some kind of misogynistic pervert - yes there probably are quite a few of those men in there but as none of you have actually met every single man who has ever set foot in a strip club and as you keep telling us, you don’t know any men who do, this is a sweeping generalisation.

It's not that it is hard to accept. It's just impossible to accept. You are either the type of man to pay to see a pair of breasts and treat women as a commodity or you aren't. I am sure I know men who have been, I don't know what my work colleagues do, I don't ask them. I know I wouldn't be friends with a man who went to them though.

As I said upthread you can't be a man who pays to see breasts and treat women as commodities and walk out with massive respect for women. You can't really respect women and go to strip clubs. Unless they are the type who respect some women but not the ones they view as beneath them.

How do you know what I do or don’t get from my husband going to a strip club?Again - another sweeping generalisation!

Great sex? Yeah, I have heard women say that. They come home to them then they have hot sex because he has been so turned on at the strip club. Lovely.

I don't know how women can continue to support it passively by saying they don't mind it when they know that other women (and girls) are being harmed by this business - whether it's NoLove being harassed as she goes about her business, or women being trafficked, or abused on the job in all its shades (from bad working conditions, not getting all their wages, physical abuse etc).

But why does that mean the whole industry should be banned and not just the clubs which are directly harming women like NoLove and the women being trafficked or abused?

Should we ban cigarettes and alcohol just because “some people are harmed by them”?

"One man who goes to a club and has no respect for women does not mean that no men who go there do"
How can a man who goes to a strip club possibly have any respect for women?
If you accept that some women are exploited in the sex industry, how can a man possibly go to a strip club if he does not know for certain whether the women he is watching are being exploited or not?

But why does that mean the whole industry should be banned and not just the clubs which are directly harming women like NoLove and the women being trafficked or abused?

I am not sure anyone has said they should be banned, I would be quite happy if that happened but I would be happier if men didn't want to go to them in the first place.

Strip clubs, even the 'nice' ones harm women because it contributes towards the way women are viewed. It's a part of the big picture.

Men being able to go to watch naked women dance somewhere shouldn't be more important than the right of women and girls to feel safe and not be demeaned and have our sense of self worth eroded and it enrages me that it's seen to be.

I haven’t said it should have I? And I agree on the safe thing. But equally, why should your feelings come before a mans either - we are all equal human beings are we not??!!

They come home to them then they have hot sex because he has been so turned on at the strip club. Lovely.

You assume the man goes without his wife and that its only the man who gets turned on - open your mind a bit. Don’t want to shock you too much but I actually get turned on watching a beautiful stripper.....

(and just because someone else’s sexual tastes don’t do it for you it does not warrant sarcasm)

It's not that it is hard to accept. It's just impossible to accept.

Erm, ok......

I'm sorry NoLove but I think I know more about the industry as a dancer than you do as an A level student, I don't mean to patronise you but I'm assuming as you're so young you and your peers aren't old enough to have any first hand experience with them.

So was that supposed to be an acknowledgement or apology to Nolove for saying this about her excellent, thoughtful and calm contributions to this thread:

I can't help but notice the inability of the strip club police to actually have a discussion. Seems you need to resort to taking the piss and trying to patronise anyone that disagrees with you.

You assume the man goes without his wife and that its only the man who gets turned on - open your mind a bit.

I have been alive long enough to know women sometimes go with them too. Upthread someone said it was ok 'because they come home to you'

Maybe you could try to open your mind to the fact that all strip clubs have a negative impact on how women are viewed. Not some of them, all of them.

"You assume the man goes without his wife and that its only the man who gets turned on - open your mind a bit. Don’t want to shock you too much but I actually get turned on watching a beautiful stripper....."

And how do you make sure she is not being exploited?

Someone I know worked in a strip club when she was younger and said that about half of the women offered extras.

She said you wouldn’t believe the amount of men that came in alone and took off their wedding rings.

The way I see it is that nobody would be happy for their DH to go watch a colleague/neighbour/friend dance topless or give him a lap dance, so why is it acceptable for him to seek it out from a stranger?
I don’t see the difference!

I also know someone who at 17 used a fake ID to get into a strip club and paid for a lap dance where the dancer repeatedly inserted her fingers in her vagina then put it in his mouth. He was bragging about it to his friends!

He might have felt peer pressure to go with everyone else, and they might have been quite drunk at the time. Unfortunately it is what happens on stag dos. He probably didn't want to upset you by telling you he went there, but the main issue is that he shouldn't have lied to you about it. Did he spend much there? On top of the lying, that's what would annoy me, those places cost a fortune!!

You need to just sit down with him and talk about it before the resentment builds. Him going to a strip club doesn't mean he wants to cheat on you, but it's the lying that needs to be addressed.

@KenBarlow

Ah, 17 year-old boys. Never known to tell lies about their sexual exploits!

But equally, why should your feelings come before a mans either - we are all equal human beings are we not??!!

Ah yes, women's desire to be treated with the esteem and respect that men are treated with in wider society, instead of the view of them primarily as their bodies and of their bodies as a commodity insidiously permeating every aspect of their lives - versus some men's desire to be able to treat women as a commodity and pay to bypass consent when they feel a bit bored and want some titillation.

Hmm, true, however do we decide whose rights are more important in this conundrum?

The MRAs who register here and pretend to be women for the sake of coming onto porn and prostitution threads and arguing for the right of men to treat women as less-than-people must be enjoying their free time right now, pp2017 - you're making their arguments for them.