Strip clubs & Stag dos

[NotInMyBackYard1]

DH went on a stag do in the summer, one night away at a weekend, obvs he came back tired and hungover but said he'd had a good time and didn't go to bed until 630am. I asked which bars stayed open until then but was told they do in Liverpool (?) obviously I am very naive!
Have since found out they were all at a lap dancing club without the stag - he'd gone to bed at midnight. AIBU to think he's bloody disgusting and to have lost all respect for him - for lying by omission and for visiting a lap dancing club in the first place.

surely you would know if any of your teachers have been to a strip club?

A baffling post

The point they're trying to make is probably because I think all men who go to strip clubs see women as sex objects. That clearly doesn't mean that when teaching at a girls' school they'd make this obvious. I'd be horrified if any of them have ever been to one and would think they were unfit to do their job, though am confident they haven't.

Just wanted to add my support to noloveofmine. Some of us care.
The very minimum that should be done is to refuse a licence to any kind of 'adult' business within the vicinity of a school or residential area. It sounds horrendous to have to put up with that kind of harassment.
I agree with the PP who said things are getting worse for girls and women in this respect. I can remember a few incidents of harassment when I was a teen, but nothing as young as 14. There certainly were no strip clubs where I lived, though I expect the odd pub had strippers. It didn't impinge on the lives of average schoolgirls though.

Thank you for the support noeffingidea. Though I don't agree with them existing anywhere for reasons I've outlined many times now on this thread I completely agree having one so near a school (actually more than one though the other is a primary school) is completely inappropriate. However that girls have suffered harassment from customers shows the attitudes they promote.

This backs up everything you say NoLove:

www.notbuyingit.org.uk/sites/default/files/Strip%20Clubs-%20Councils%20Licensing%20Obligations.pdf

This is from the government and it mentions not putting them near local schools! It makes you wonder if it's licensed.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04751/SN04751.pdf

Sorry, that last link might now work for some reason.

It's a government paper called Lap dancing clubs: licensing issues by John Woodhouse if anyone is interested.

There’s a lot of assumption on this thread that EVERY man who goes to a strip club gets involved, shoving money in dancers underwear and paying for those “up close and personal dances”..... I’m sure any dancer would tell you that’s not necessary the case!

There are some who will happily stay at the bar or in a booth/at a table chatting with their friends and having drinks..... I’ve been in a club and done exactly that with a mixed group of male and female colleagues!!

The single men got a bit closer, some paid for dances, the married ones didn’t and mainly just casually glanced over now and again (as did the females in the group).

As hard as this may be to believe, I didn’t see any of those women as objects to be bought and sold, I saw women earning a living by providing a service, in no different a way than a cleaner would go to someone’s house to provide a service?!

Mainly I was astounded and extremely impressed at how fit and acrobatic those girls were 👏🏼👏🏼

This all being said - I do agree with @NoLoveofMine Re:the club in close proximity to a school and open during the day where children can see - not cool!! It’s something that should be kept strictly in the adult world.... and if there is rowdy behaviour outside and men shouting at passers by and generally being “anti social” then I would have thought this should be taken up by the police and local licensing authority?

This is from the government and it mentions not putting them near local schools! It makes you wonder if it's licensed.

It does seem odd to grant a license to a strip bar close to a school or a residential area. Even normal bars have to adhere to strict conditions relating to customer noise etc when coming and going, otherwise they risk losing their license to sell alcohol.

Thank you annielouise.

pp2017 the situation you describe going with colleagues is another reason they're harmful. Many women would not feel comfortable either going or knowing colleagues went. I wouldn't in future. This could harm women's careers. I find the notion of having to work with men who think this is acceptable pretty worrying.

As for the club near my school, it's not open during the day but we're well aware of what it is seeing as there's branding outside and the slogan "meet the girl of your dreams" and promises of "your favourite girl revealing all" (sic) are emblazoned clearly outside. It opens in the evening at a time when there are numerous occasions pupils could be and often are still at school: returning from sporting fixtures, a trip, plays and so on. As for the local licensing authority the school and many parents and local residents all objected to its licence being renewed with no success. The behaviour isn't "men shouting at passers by" it's men harassing girls (and I expect women too) with comments directly linked to the club. It's ghastly and shows their misogyny and view of all women and girls.

I can guarantee it's licensed for a number of reasons including that it's part of a chain and I know of objections to the licence. I personally wrote to the local residents' association asking them to object but they already were planning to. The club was already there when I joined the school in 2011.

What a load of nonsense sharklovers. That says more about the men you know than men in general.

I had considered that, but we’re not talking just friends here. Men from all kinds of backgrounds that I encounter through work etc. I recently joined a new club, bear in mind I had never met any of these guys before, they range from working class to wealthy professionals, within a couple of hours of meeting them it’s clear that strip joints are on the cards when they go on trips abroad.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3037162-Thinking-Universal-Credit-will-make-a-lot-of-women-stay-in-bad-relationships-and-consider-sex-work

Hello, I think you'd be (unpleasantly) surprised if you surveyed all the men you know over 40 to see if they had ever been to a strip club (or Dads who saw a stripper in the pub in the 70's).

There are a lot of Stag do's in your life and to make it through without going to a single strip club is impressive.

That said, I don't think many men are irredeemable. Most of us either honestly didn't think about how the sex industry affects women or chose to ignore that uncomfortable feeling.

Talking about it frankly and explaining full point of view will hopefully change minds.

"That said, I don't think many men are irredeemable. Most of us either honestly didn't think about how the sex industry affects women or chose to ignore that uncomfortable feeling"

Why is it up to women to "redeem" you? Do you not have brains and empathy?

Are we assuming here all women are victims here? Just the stories I've hear back from a friend who danced were far from victims. They were young women who worked out they could earn a reasonable amount of money in a decent club. Got them through uni and a house deposit.

Marvellous, I love the cheery anecdotals. I am genuinely pleased for women who use this line of work to fund their way into more fulfilling careers or to give them the security of a home I really am. Because I am above all, for women as a feminist.

That said, for one reason or another (and without saying anything which will give away who I am to those who know me) I had reason to do a lot of research in this area (and in the sex industry on the street and in print) and conducted interviews of women over the UK involved in sex work or formerly invvolved. I could tell you eye watering stories to counter your pleasant ones. I heard some of the sort of thing mentioned in your post but I can tell you with absolute honesty they were the exception and not the rule, and yes this is lap dancing clubs. The things I could tell you about street work are heart breaking.

I admire the sheer force of personality and will it takes to come away from this kind of work completely unscathed and without some psychological scars but there aren't many people with that strength of character and that's a fact. At the very least a lingering mistrust of men which in many cases crosses over into hate or worse fear is commonplace. Granted that is only in my experience of talking to people but I did speak to many people in a capacity where they didn't feel the need to put the brave or stoic face on and where they didn't feel they had to justify the line of work.

It is for this reason, going to lap dancing clubs etc. is a deal breaker for me and I made that clear at the beginning of my relationship. I simply can't be with someone supporting the objectification of women which leads to real harm. It really does cause harm, not just to the women involved (that harm can be intense) but also to womankind who are subject to a more pervasive objectification of women which starts in sex work. The lying would be just one more issue.

Off to read the rest of the thread now, so excuse me if I have repeated anything said by others.

My DH is 67 (23 years my senior) and went to a bar in the late 1960s where there were strippers but it was the only decent bar in our small market town.

DH and most of his then friends apart from one friend didnt take much notice .......the one friend who did got the piss taken out of him for MONTHS afterwards.

DH and his old friendship group basically saw any man that had to pay for female attention and/or sex as a sad pathetic specimen who cant get a woman any other way. DH still thinks the same now.

Hes quite stunned by the complete about turn there seems to have been over the decades.

LTB.

Why do you even have to ask?

Hello, I think you'd be (unpleasantly) surprised if you surveyed all the men you know over 40 to see if they had ever been to a strip club (or Dads who saw a stripper in the pub in the 70's).

There are a lot of Stag do's in your life and to make it through without going to a single strip club is impressive.

This is exactly what I’m saying. Not all men are frothing at the mouth desperate for strippers, it’s not my bag and I know plenty of others who feel the same, however we’ve all been in a strip club at least once. I’ve never encountered a man who has said he’s never been to one.

I had considered that, but we’re not talking just friends here. Men from all kinds of backgrounds that I encounter through work etc. I recently joined a new club, bear in mind I had never met any of these guys before, they range from working class to wealthy professionals, within a couple of hours of meeting them it’s clear that strip joints are on the cards when they go on trips abroad.

How utterly pathetic that men you've just met are talking about objectifying women within a couple of hours of making your acquaintance. Then again, you think it's hilarious that your friends lie to their wives about going somewhere they know full well they find demeaning. You think deceiving loved ones is amusing and that men who wouldn't want to go to such a place would be mocked, speaks volumes.

"Why is it up to women to "redeem" you? Do you not have brains and empathy?"

It's not up to women or anyone else to redeem anyone. I merely said that frank discussion with men will change minds. Discussion would likely be more powerful coming from other men.

Every bloke goes to lap dancing bars sooner or later. I think they are pretty boring. They sell beer. They are not brothels ( mostly in the UK ) and if everyone is going its hard not to. The stag /groom was obviously too drunk to get in.
Enquiries about a stag night were guaranteed to disappoint

Every bloke goes to lap dancing bars sooner or later.

No they don't.

Yet another man arrives to suggest all men are happy to objectify women and no man has any strength of character or ability to stand up to a group. Quite a low opinion of men other men seem to have. Seems some of us see men in a better light. It also says a lot I know 17 year old boys (actually 15 year old boys too like my brother) with more strength of character than some men posting on this thread. Ones who challenge misogyny amongst peers and won't stand for sexism, something it seems is beyond some adult men.

I personally wouldn't mind my husband going but I would be angry about him lying to me about it. My husband has been to a strip club once on a day out (boys days as they sadly called it) he was upfront with me and said if I didn't want him to he wouldn't go. I didn't mind. He then told me all about it when he got home. The lying would annoy me. In my view of women choose to make money this way then fair play to them. If they are in any way vulnerable, not looked after or forced into it I would have an issue. Lots of people have said they don't approve but is it any different to the Chippendales etc? I have no idea really as have never been and really doesn't appeal just a question!