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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Strip clubs & Stag dos

784 replies

NotInMyBackYard1 · 08/10/2017 10:44

DH went on a stag do in the summer, one night away at a weekend, obvs he came back tired and hungover but said he'd had a good time and didn't go to bed until 630am. I asked which bars stayed open until then but was told they do in Liverpool (?) obviously I am very naive!
Have since found out they were all at a lap dancing club without the stag - he'd gone to bed at midnight. AIBU to think he's bloody disgusting and to have lost all respect for him - for lying by omission and for visiting a lap dancing club in the first place.

OP posts:
Sallystyle · 08/10/2017 18:14

NoLove Thanks My 18 year old son is very passionate about these issues. He has spent a lot of time around me and my sister discussing it all Grin

NoLoveofMine · 08/10/2017 18:16

He sounds fantastic U2! It's great to hear of boys and men who understand the issues and are passionate about it. The elder of my two brothers is 15 and has also become very aware, he challenges sexism amongst his friends and at his (boys') school. I also have friends who are boys who are in a Feminist Society at the same school!

MaisyPops · 08/10/2017 18:18

U2
My husband has openly said he can't think of anything more awkward than sitting in a strip/lap dance club. He would feel hugely uncomfortable.

I'd happily go to a pole dance/strip club with him (I'm quite curious) but I would only ever attend with him to watch and it would be a total no from him so that's fine. We're both of the view that as long as all activity is legal and free informed consent is given then it's up to adults to decide.

Wanderlust1984 · 08/10/2017 18:20

I've had a dance. It was seriously no big deal. I drink in one in particular as my friend works behind the bar there when I visit this city. The girls love their jobs, and it's a great atmosphere. Many people drink there purely as it stays open later than other bars.

Naked ladies are sexy. If women want to get paid for dancing, why not? If people want to pay to watch, why not? If you don't like them, just don't visit them?? Men like to look at ladies as they're generally more visual of the sexes.

The amount of men I know who go and tell there OHs they hate them is vast. One or two have even laughed to me about it which I actually find very twatty.

missevelina · 08/10/2017 18:23

YANBU to be annoyed that he didn't tell you but I do think you are massively overreacting.

I know from conversations with my friends about strip clubs/lap dances etc, that my opinion is not 'the norm', but I have zero problem with my DP visiting such places or having lap dances - we have also visited together many times and had joint lap dances.

As a previous poster said, it was a strip club, not a brothel! I think you need to get a grip.

I would, however, be very disappointed if my DP felt the need to lie to me about anything - and I think if that is what he is doing, you have more serious problems than him having a lap dance!

NoLoveofMine · 08/10/2017 18:24

Other women and girls have no choice but to live in the culture they foster. I have already posted about why they bother me and many other women and girls. I have no choice but to walk past one regularly, sometimes when it's open. I have no choice about men seeing women and girls as sex objects. I will have no choice about being excluded from work nights out as you describe "every man" you know in such environments going to them. Women have no choice but to work alongside these men, who see them in such manners, and exclude them from work nights out on which many if they were able to go would feel uncomfortable. They are degrading and they harm many women and girls.

MaisyPops · 08/10/2017 18:25

The amount of men I know who go and tell there OHs they hate them is vast. One or two have even laughed to me about it which I actually find very twatty.
I agree. Lying is twattish.

If within a relationship it us mutually agreed that they are ok with whatever boundaries they set then that's fine.

To know that your DP hates something or has a problem and to do it anyway is betrayal. To laugh about it with their mates makes them cunts (& I hate that word)

NoLoveofMine · 08/10/2017 18:28

Sorry it wasn't Wanderlust1984 who said every man she knows has been to one.

MaisyPops · 08/10/2017 18:28

Women have no choice but to work alongside these men, who see them in such manners, and exclude them from work nights out on which many if they were able to go would feel uncomfortable.
I would disagree that because a man enjoys going to a club they see all womrn as sexual objects to be consumed. I think that is a step too far. Equally thr idea of men see women as sexual beings, of course they do. Just like people of any sexual orientation potentially find their chosen sex sexually attractive. It doesn't mean a lesbian woman who attends a club will view all women as potential shags.

I do think that making attending them as part of a workplace culture is bloody rude and inappropriate though.

Sallystyle · 08/10/2017 18:30

I think the younger people are aware of the issues the better chance we have. It's great to hear of men, especially young men getting on board.

We're both of the view that as long as all activity is legal and free informed consent is given then it's up to adults to decide.

We could get into the debate about whether paying for sex or sexual services is really consent. I'm not sure how I feel about that when it comes to strip clubs though.

But yes, it is up to adults to decide. It doesn't mean those who choose to take part in the sex industry aren't contributing to the much bigger problem though. The one that just doesn't affect the women stripping but women and girls all over.

NoLoveofMine · 08/10/2017 18:30

I do think that making attending them as part of a workplace culture is bloody rude and inappropriate though.

Quite. But a poster has described this as being so commonplace every man she knows has done this in a "professional culture". Surely even some who think there's no issue with these clubs existing can see how harmful this is to women and potentially to women's careers.

MaisyPops · 08/10/2017 18:35

But a poster has described this as being so commonplace every man she knows has done this in a "professional culture". Surely even some who think there's no issue with these clubs existing can see how harmful this is to women and potentially to women's careers.
Absolutely!

I have no issue with the clubs existing (as you know), but they are for people to attend in their personal life.

Allowing them to be part of workplace culture is ridiculous because then you get the packs of men at work doing a bizare form of networking based on who they find attractive rather than their ability to do the job well. It's horrendous.

I'm surprised HR aren't involved there. I would be getting union advice if that happened at my work.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim · 08/10/2017 18:35

Bertrand I second your slap on the back and offer a high five into the bargain. This lass is demolishing them. Granted it's not exactly intellectual heavyweights she's got for opposition but my faith in our future is truly restored...

NoLoveofMine · 08/10/2017 18:37

I disagree with you on the clubs generally MaisyPops but understand we have different opinions on that. I'm glad you agree regarding the workplace. I know in the field my dad works in there exists a strip pub/club in the heart of where many in his profession are based. Many men working in the field go, sometimes at lunchtimes, often after work, it completely excludes women and makes them uncomfortable. My dad has forbidden anyone who works in his chambers from doing so in any way connected with work. As you say, it should be completely unacceptable in workplace culture and that it's apparently so commonplace for men to go there on "work nights out" is hugely detrimental to women.

HelenaDove · 08/10/2017 18:48

I have some insight into the way women are treated in this kind of industry. 15/16 years ago i was working in a sex chatline office. I lost a lot of weight while i was working there.......lost it very quickly and ended up with gallstones . I was in the middle of a gallstone attack while on a call and in excrutiating pain. The caller coulldnt have cared less. He could hear that i was in pain and expected me to finish the call.

Not the same as a strip club but it gives some insight into the "ive paid for your time so you are mine for that time mentality"

A partner going to a strip club would be a deal breaker for me too as ive said on these threads before.

RestlessTraveller · 08/10/2017 18:55

Karlos I'm no "intellectual heavyweight" so you'll have to clarify this for me, but did you just infer that people on this thread are stupid?

kali110 · 08/10/2017 18:57

RestlessTraveller
Yep

RestlessTraveller · 08/10/2017 18:58

Arsehole.

SquareSophia · 08/10/2017 18:58

Restless I think she did.

Judgy, patronising, bullying, nasty. Just because others have a different view it’s attack, insult, criticise. This is mumsnet, as I am learning.

Don’t waste your breath.

Apparently I’m a bad mum AND stupid. Lucky me.

RestlessTraveller · 08/10/2017 19:01

People like Karlos are exactly why I never tell anyone I'm a feminist.

MaisyPops · 08/10/2017 19:05

NoLoveofMine I agree with yoy entirely on thr work front. It is the height of unprofessionalism which keeps some professions part of the old boys network (& maybe I'm being unfair here but I would also imagine they would avoid hiring women who might go on maternity leave and create a very macho culture which isn't good for women or men who don't conform).

Judgy, patronising, bullying, nasty. Just because others have a different view it’s attack, insult, criticise. This is mumsnet, as I am learning.
It's just some though.

As you can see, I disagree with noble and nolove on the morality of the clubs existing but we've disagreed respectfully. Most people are quite reasonable.

If I think on threads when I've been a bit of dick it's usually when people have been rude or start spouting nonsense about topics they clearly know little about

MaisyPops · 08/10/2017 19:07

send fail

... so if someone politely disagrees with me then we discuss it and it is interesting. I'd only ever get arsey if someone was being unreasonable. Really I'm starting to decide on MN that it's best to not reply or try to talk to those people because I just get pissed off.

littlebird7 · 08/10/2017 19:11

The bottom line is exploitation.
I very much doubt the girls are 'enjoying' it, some men think they are but it is just an act.
Many are involved in slavery and have been trafficked. Others have serious drug habits or alcohol problems. Or trying to avoid being homeless.
So yes it is a free world and it is not illegal to exploit women and girls like this sadly, but no one should be under any kind of illusion what a truly revolting world it is and they are paying to continue the exploitation and misery of these women.
Would it be a deal breaker for me if it was my dh, absolutely it would. I would never be able to see him in the same light again.

anon97528996 · 08/10/2017 19:11

All wider moral issues aside, if my DP went to a strip club knowing I would hate it, that just tells me he’d rather cause me pain to get a boner over a teenager than be a good partner. That’s not someone I’d want to be with.

NoLoveofMine · 08/10/2017 19:12

Thank you MaisyPops and for debating with me in such a manner! I appreciate you engaging with my points and putting forward yours - glad we agree on how inappropriate it is for workplace nights out to take place in such clubs and the impact that could have on women and women's careers. It's something which must be stamped out and it makes me fear for my own future career if it isn't.