Strip clubs & Stag dos

[NotInMyBackYard1]

DH went on a stag do in the summer, one night away at a weekend, obvs he came back tired and hungover but said he'd had a good time and didn't go to bed until 630am. I asked which bars stayed open until then but was told they do in Liverpool (?) obviously I am very naive!
Have since found out they were all at a lap dancing club without the stag - he'd gone to bed at midnight. AIBU to think he's bloody disgusting and to have lost all respect for him - for lying by omission and for visiting a lap dancing club in the first place.

Thanks for the lecture iwanttobe8stone. In return I refer you to the numerous threads on this board where the vacuous assertion that feminism is all about supporting women's choices no matter how self-defeating, supportive of anti-women social structures or detrimental to other women they may be has been pulverised far more articulately than I can manage on Sunday afternoon with a hangover?

Oh and by the way you have it the wrong way round. Men don't believe women are objects because they go to strip clubs. They go to strip clubs because they believe women are objects. Which is why I, and numerous others, when we learn a man does this, know what he is and avoid dealings. As is our right.

Oh and by the way you have it the wrong way round. Men don't believe women are objects because they go to strip clubs. They go to strip clubs because they believe women are objects. Which is why I, and numerous others, when we learn a man does this, know what he is and avoid dealings. As is our right.

Very much so Karlos.

Try concentrating on issues where women really are being abused

What a ridiculous post. You have no idea what women might campaign for or what brought any feminist to feminism.

Let's face it walk into any nightclub and teenagers wearing not much more than strippers are being drooled over by some 40 year old dads giggling like school boys.

Oh, so because men objectify women and girls in other places too it's fine anywhere?

an establishment whose reason to exist is got men to look at naked women

That says it all. These establishments exist for men to look at naked women. It's considered absolutely fine to have entire clubs devoted to this, providing naked women for men, telling all women and girls this is our worth and our value to men.

Lol. No doubt your DH /partner keeps a lot of his life very secret!

I don't have one. You have quite a low opinion of men though if you think they all go to such clubs and either admit it or are honest about it. My dad never would.

either admit it or hide the fact they do rather

I gratefully accept your gift Bertrand

I think it's a generational thing so no your dad probably hasn't. But every single man I know my age/ younger has been to one. Maybe it's office/professional culture but they have all been. Mind you there's quite a lot blokes get up to on works nights out that never pressumably gets back home

My dad is a very senior professional and wouldn't tolerate anyone who works for him doing so. That says a lot, though, another negative of strip clubs - the exclusion of women in the workplace through men going to them with colleagues, or women feeling uncomfortable if they are able to go. How degrading and disheartening for me as a girl.

As for "a generational thing" I'm 17 and no boys I'm friends with would ever go to one when old enough.

That really is deflating to know. No matter how hard I work, no matter what I achieve, I will, if what you're saying reflects society, have male colleagues who see me and all women and girls as sex objects, and go to ogle women dancing for their pleasure after working with me and before seeing me the next day, excluding me from such work events and harming my future career. As it does with many women now.

For thousands of years men have enjoyed looking at naked women (through various mediums) and I imagine in thousands of years time this will remain the case. It's a by product of being male and being heterosexual. We can kick off as much as we like about this but we will never EVER change it.

I personally have no problem with my husband going to a strip club & that's nothing to do with being a 'cool wife'. I'm not his mother and in my opinion it's not cheating. It's looking at a naked body. If he wants to jeopardise everything we have by pushing the line & cheating then more fool him - me giving him rules and regulations beforehand won't change anything.

Again, all about male desire, what men want, male sexuality. Never mind the lives or opinions of women and girls when men "enjoy looking at naked women", can't deny them clubs devoted to providing this for them. Poor men.

What about women who visit stripclubs? Or do they not exsist ?

But you will NEVER change that! You can't alter the make up of male sexuality. It's nothing to do with porn, strip clubs, etc. I refuse to believe in the days before accessibility to these things that men didn't enjoy looking at naked women.......

This isn't the point. Many women also enjoy looking at naked men. The point is clubs existing purely to provide naked women to dance for men and the culture they foster, one which affects many other women and girls negatively.

And vice versa slide. Women are attracted yo men. Gay men and lesbians are attracted to people of the same sex.

Saying 'i find people attractive' and going somewhere to look at attractive people doesn't equal 'only valuing peoplr for their sex appeal'. It means someone enjoys looking at attractive people: male or female.

I nearly signed up to a burlesque dance class a few years ago because it's sexy and fun. It doesn't mean women who chose to do burlesque dancing are only valued for their sexy dancing. I don't like the branch of feminism that says 'you can be anytging you want to be, except embrace your own sex appeal... i mean I don't judge the women if it is what they want to do but i'll judge the men because obviously there's no way a woman could make a decision for herself. It's the nasty male customers who make them and cause thr problem.'

NoLove great posts here.

It's a sad state of affairs that you and others have needed to explain the problem with strip clubs and the much bigger issues they represent.

No one ever gives a proper argument as to why they don't think strip clubs are harmful and contribute to the awful misogynistic culture we have. I have never seen a well thought out argument about why it is ok.

I honestly think that many women have to convince themselves it's ok and it is harming no one. It's probably easier to believe all men do it, that it's perfectly fine rather than believing the man you are with view women as commodities. I'm not saying all women are convincing themselves they are fine with it but I think too many are.

Another baffling post from MaisyPops. I'm talking about the men who go and the culture they perpetuate, plus the adverse impact on other women and girls such as many of the girls at my school. I have explained all this at length. It's nothing to do with women "embracing their own sex appeal"

Thank you very much U2HasTheEdge! It's very disheartening that they exist and to know girls will continue to have to grow up in this culture, to know our careers may be harmed in future, excluded, male colleagues going to them and so forth. Thank you for your words on my posts!

Keep up the good fight though NoLove I hope this doesn't sound condescending but at your age this kind of thing passed me by. It wasn't until relatively recently that I looked back at my own experiences as a teenager and young adult and realised just how much shit I put up with and brushed off as normal 'because men..' None of this crossed my mind at your age and I really wish it had. I might have dealt with things differently when my neighbour sexually harassed me at aged 13.

I really hope my young children will grow up to feel as passionate about women's issues as you do and be able to articulate it so well.

NoLoveofMine
It seema most peoplr want to talk about the men but not the women.
The two are related.

If women WANT to do that then they sort of need an audience.

At the end of the day, there is always going to be a divide on this issue betwren people who will claim men even going yo these places is fundamentally oppressive to women and girls everywhere (whilst claiming thry have no issue with women choosing to do it - which baffles me) and people who say 'whatever my personal view, it is not for my to judge the legal actions of consenting adults'.

I'm of the view that people find other people attractive. As long as what they do is within the law and all parties are informed and freely consenting then it's not my place to judge.

(Personally, i would be furious if DH had a lap dance, not because I have a moral issue with lapdancing but because it would betray my trust)

Thank you very much U2HasTheEdge. It's not condescending at all and is very heartening for me to read those comments! Sorry to read of the sexual harassment you suffered at 13, this is far too common and something so many women and girls continue to suffer. I have no doubt your children will be very aware of the issues and will be (and already are) fantastic people!