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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this teacher should not have told-off a pupil on the bus

243 replies

Bookaboo · 05/10/2017 18:36

Couple of hours after the end of school, a few kids on the bus and a guy who happens to be a teacher at their school.
The teacher stopped one lad , who was probably only in year 7, and started grilling him about why he had no tie on. Told him to see him at break tomorrow for detention, but the kid was on his way home & was doing no harm.
I felt really sorry for the kid & felt like the teacher was just being an asshole.
If that was my son in a few years I wouldn't want him to be treated like that. I know that schools have an image to uphold etc.. but jut couldn't help thinking that stuff like this makes kids feel miserable about going to school.

OP posts:
MaisyPops · 05/10/2017 21:09

boney
They would be the first to complain about rowdy kids annoying THEM but if they personally aren't bothered then it's just kids being kids.
They'd also be first to expevt school yo deal with nasty social media issues created out of school because it's not their job to stop their child having bitchy chats on snapchat at midnight
If their child complained about other kids on the way home then they would also be demanding school did something.

Personally, the detention for a tie was a bit over the top but this thread (likr many others) just proves why there's a shortage of people wanting to teach. Too much 'back off this child/my child but exclude timmy because my child says he doesn't listen', sanction other children for name calling but when it's my child it's a joke. Etc.

SlothMama · 05/10/2017 21:13

Why should the child have to wear their tie outside of school? What a busy body of a teacher

JonSnowsWife · 05/10/2017 21:15

This "representing the school" business I mean, if you saw a child not wearing his tie on the bus would you be offended and ring the school up to complain

No. But the group who told me they were going to beat me up in front of my autistic child because I had the nerve to stop them from beating a tiny year 7 up a few days prior.

Too goddamn right I complained about that. The uniform made it very handy to know which school I needed to contact and the staff couldn't have been more helpful. Guess what the teacher I spoke to said? "we take our reputation very seriously". So yes, it does matter to some schools.

Ceto · 05/10/2017 21:18

Thinking the teacher won't have a word with a kid about their uniform if a parent there doesn't work here. I was in a meeting with DDs senco team when a teacher breezed in to get something. Introduced themselves politely ans then told DD to fasten her top button up! I wasn't the least bit offended

I would be very offended. It's pretty rude of the teacher just to breeze into a meeting about a child with SEN which may well be sensitive, and it's extremely rude to start telling one of the participants how to arrange their clothing, even if it was a pupil. It was even ruder to imply that her colleague was being remiss for not dealing with it. Plus, for all she knew, your daughter's SEN may have included sensory problems which meant that she needed to leave the button undone.

plantsitter · 05/10/2017 21:20

Gor, kids have it joyless these days.

You could ring the school and say that you wanted to remark on a couple of boys who were so well behaved and polite on the bus home that you had to bring it to their attention. And just pretend you didn't see the teacher/tie bit! Include lots of identifying factors and say how well they represented their school Grin

Ceto · 05/10/2017 21:22

It prepares students to wear a uniform. Every profession that requires you to wear a uniform has disciplinary procedures for if you wear it incorrectly. It brings the institution it represents into disrepute, be that a nursery, a tile fitter, an army officer or a nurse. So yes, it does prepare them for professional life

No-one needs to be prepared at school to wear a uniform. All over Europe, where schools don't have uniforms, people manage to wear uniforms in their jobs despite having lacked this apparently vital preparation. Professions that require you to wear uniform don't in fact normally have disciplinary procedures relating to what you wear when you are off duty. And, frankly, anyone that decides that a particular hospital must be disreputable just because they happen to see one of its nurses on public transport and off duty not wearing one item of her uniform is a total idiot.

JonSnowsWife · 05/10/2017 21:24

Well I wasn't, and it wasn't rude, they shared the office. I am not going into more as will be outing but DDs sens aren't sensory. Even children with sensory issues around the top button are required to accommodate somehow if possible. (My DS has ASD & ADHD so I am aware of how sensory issues can impact them).

I dont see any reason to be offended about my child being required in a polite manner to follow the rules. If I don't like it there are other schools. DD doesn't seem too affected by it. She has been as happy as a pig in muck since starting there.

innagazing · 05/10/2017 21:25

It's fair enough for the teacher to tell them off about the tie if it's a school rule that they wear the uniform properly out of school.

If the teacher hadn't told him off, it would send a confusing message to the child that they don't need to follow the rules. Then they (and every other child in the school) may not bother following the other rules. Therein lies the path to chaos...

If the parents and the kids don't like the rules of any particular school, they shouldn't have enrolled in that school in the first place.

If you do want your child to go to the school, then respect the school and it's rules, and teach your child to respect it too.

JonSnowsWife · 05/10/2017 21:26

Joyless?

Gosh my school was joyless. My DCs dont believe half the stuff we had to do when we were at school. Mainly because to do the same nowadays would lead to a large amount of sacking.

Bit military? Maybe. Like I said in the beginning. Depends on the rules of the school. Joyless? No.

Ceto · 05/10/2017 21:29

f the child doesn't like the rules and complains to the parents and they agree , they have the choice to find another school

No, they don't. In many areas the reality is that parents and children don't have any choice as to schools because all local schools are so over-subscribed.

It's the principle of the tie, rather than the tie itself imo - anyone who works outside of their home has to conform to a dress code at work whether they agree with it or not.

But they don't normally have to conform to a dress code outside work.

people know the rules and regs when they fill in the application form.

Not necessarily. Frequently ridiculous crackdowns on uniform rules coincide with new broom heads who think that being tough on uniform makes them big and clever, and will miraculously drag the school up the league tables; inevitably they get disappointed on both counts. They also often coincide with maintained schools becoming academies. It may therefore well be the case that parents and pupils didn't sign up to this.

Plus, of course, not everyone applies to the school in question. Many simply get allocated the place because there is nothing available in the school of their preference. How does that argument work for them?

Ceto · 05/10/2017 21:31

if the boy was bullying others should the teachers not investigate it because it’s in “his own time”? You can’t pick and choose which rules the teachers can enforce.

Yes, you can, when it is outside school hours. I would hope that any adult would intervene to deal with bullying irrespective of whether they happen to teach the children responsible. I would not expect any adult to go round telling random children to wear ties.

echt · 05/10/2017 21:35

Yes, you can, when it is outside school hours. I would hope that any adult would intervene to deal with bullying irrespective of whether they happen to teach the children responsible. I would not expect any adult to go round telling random children to wear

This was about teachers intervening in bullying, not some random adult. If the pupil is in uniform, then the teacher has to intervene.

VioletCharlotte · 05/10/2017 21:36

This is so ridiculous. These sort of rules drive me mad. I'm really glad my two are now at sixth form. They can wear what they like, have their hair how they want, they call teachers by the first name and teachers and students are mutually respectful of each other.

Aderyn17 · 05/10/2017 21:36

What children do outside of school hours is their parents business. Schools can make all the rules they want, but they have no jurisdiction outside of school hours. The parents pay for the uniform, so really it is their property and not for the school to dictate what is/isn't worn when the school day is over.

I wouldn't expect schools to deal with social media issues unless said issue was spilling over into the school day.

user1486829597 · 05/10/2017 21:37

I went for a walk at school turning out time yesterday and the secondary school children all looked so worried, miserable and serious. They looked to me like they were quite young ones and they were on there own mostly but there was no lively chatter from the ones in groups, just tired anxious little kids. I felt so sorry for them. My son went to that school 20 years ago, it has a good reputation as do all the secondary schools in this town. We live in a very "nice" area, no terrible deprivation. Looking back I wish I had home educated him but didn't know enough about it at the time.

Ceto · 05/10/2017 21:37

It’s not as if we’re about send them down a mine, just helping them get into good habits.

Nonsense. Since when was it a "good habit" to wear a tie in your leisure time?

Ceto · 05/10/2017 21:41

I think you have misunderstood school rules, altogether. they do not apply in school, they apply whenever and where ever a student is wearing school uniform. Technically that would mean even in their own home, although I've never heard of anyone trying to enforce that.

A school may choose to say that their rules apply whenever and wherever a pupil is wearing uniform, but that doesn't make it so. You yourself have identified one massive hole in that principle, and there are many others. It's just wishful thinking on the part of a dictatorial schools.

JonSnow, reputation may well matter to schools in terms of their pupils getting involved in criminal behaviour. But seriously, does anyone whose opinion actually matters think the less of a school because they see a pupil on a bus without a tie?

Ceto · 05/10/2017 21:45

Well I wasn't, and it wasn't rude, they shared the office. I am not going into more as will be outing but DDs sens aren't sensory.

It can still be rude to barge in on a private meeting even if you do share the office where it is taking place - it's certainly rude to interrupt it and start talking to one of the participants about something else.

The issue is not whether your daughter's SEN include sensory problems, but the fact that the person who barged in knew that. And what if the child with sensory issues can't accommodate them? It's not necessarily something you can control at will.

Imonlyfuckinghuman · 05/10/2017 21:45

ceto I agree with your posts.

you don't need to talk to the pupils like shit to get drill in respect. My dc go to a rural independent school who's attitude to uniform is quite relaxed has no impact on grades what so ever.

JennyBlueWren · 05/10/2017 21:45

When I was at school there was a rule of full uniform to and from school. But I can't imagine many of the teachers enforcing it.

I was quite impressed when I was waiting at the bus stop after school and a group of pupils (2 in my class) walked past me with their bikes... I had earlier seen them cycling on the pavement in the distance! Was pleased they'd thought to walk past me though as we'd spoken about cycling on the pavement and the law!

FenceSitter01 · 05/10/2017 21:45

There is a simple solution. Send your child to a school filled with those sorts of children from those sorts of parents who don't give a shit about anything. It isn't a difficult choice.

echt · 05/10/2017 21:47

But seriously, does anyone whose opinion actually matters think the less of a school because they see a pupil on a bus without a tie?

People talk about schools and judge them by the behaviour and appearance of of pupils outside the school grounds. Whether they are wise to do do is quite another matter.

MaisyPops · 05/10/2017 21:50

I wouldn't expect schools to deal with social media issues unless said issue was spilling over into the school day
That is because you are sensible.

The reality is that kids talk and whatever happens out of school is the topic of conversation so we police that and shut it down and then someone (quite often the main instigator in my experience) gets their mum on the phone saying everyone is bullying her. The reality is they were a nasty madam on social media all night and when the chat has been talked about people don't want to be associated with a nasty girl. But the girl's mum starts demanding meetings about why we arent taking her claim of bullying seriously. We point out that we have followed up school stuff but x y z happened over the weekend which has nothing to with us and needs to be sorted out by parents. At that point you get but you know how it is with kids. Kids are kids. Girls are always a bit like that. I mean what can you do about it really? My DC is glued to her phone but that's how things are these days. I don't know. What can you do?

plantsitter · 05/10/2017 21:51

Well joyless is all opinion isn't it. 'A bit military' and 'joyless' aren't too far apart in my book.

My school was fairly joyless to but it didn't follow me around on the bus home.

CecilyP · 05/10/2017 21:52

Well I wasn't, and it wasn't rude, they shared the office. I am not going into more as will be outing but DDs sens aren't sensory.

You may not have been offended but that teacher’s behaviour was extremely rude for all the reasons Ceto outlined. Who on earth thinks it appropriate to interrupt a private meeting in that way just because they share an office?