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Original poster

Close friends and marriage break-up

246 replies

NameChangedForThisIssue · 02/10/2017 15:15

As you can see from my username I've name changed for this as one of the individuals is on MN.

Two weeks ago a very good friend of mine started divorce proceedings. Her H and I are actually very good friends too and I've known for about a year that she wanted out. He had no idea (though I doubt the veracity of that because who in a marriage doesn't know when it's not going well?)

So anyway, her H and I are going to a wedding in Florence in a week's time for another one of our friend's wedding and we've been planning this over Facebook and WhatsApp messages - amongst our messages he'd write about what's going on with his wife and other things.

It would now appear that I am one of the reasons that she wants to divorce him. I introduced them to each other 10+ years ago and tbh there's never been an issue with our friendship. I've had quite a few boyfriends/dates over the years which I always regaled them with and when I was in a relationship we'd often do things as a 4-some so didn't see the issue.

My friend (the wife) now thinks that actually her husband has become too attached to me and has told our other friends that I too are to blame for the downfall of their marriage.

I just don't understand this. It makes fuck-all sense to me. Surely if we had wanted to be together we've had the best part of 10 years to do so - why would I have suddenly fallen in love with her husband in the past few weeks!?

He and I talk most days and as I said we've always been close and confided in each other but I'm not a home-wrecker.

OP posts:
GiantSteps · 03/10/2017 22:43

What @LaughingElliot says

This thread somehow encapsulates all the crap that women put each other through.

I feel for you OP you've been put in an impossible position.

I suspect the wife is projecting all sorts of her discontent and anger onto you. Maybe even blaming you for introducing her to her husband.

But I do wish people would RTFT. The husband has only become dependent on the OP after his wife said she wanted a divorce. And the wife seems to have told the OP about wanting a divorce long before she told her husband. That's not appropriate behaviour at all.

ASqueakingInTheShrubbery · 03/10/2017 22:47

You've lost one friend, there's no benefit to anyone in losing two. Go to Florence with your head held high and be the same friend to him you've always been. If you've been friends with him for 10 years, bloody introduced them to each other, and only now when her marriage is over she starts spreading muck about you, it's not you behaving badly. You're in a shitty position, she's probably all over the place and looking for a focus for her hurt feelings. If the mutual friends know you well, it should all settle down with them in time.

Crescend0 · 03/10/2017 23:28

Over years before I had DC, I made various male friends through uni and work. Without exception, it always escalated into them having feelings for me or vice versa. Some of them I ended up dating. But even if they weren't my type physically, you know when things are going too far. Even if you try not to admit it to yourself, it's usually blatantly obvious to other people. All these relationships dissipated over time. My friendships with men have always had a different quality or intensity to those with women and so don't think this is unusual at all.

CoughLaughFart · 04/10/2017 00:36

You'd get a short shrift from me if I was unhappy with my husband's clingy female BFF, and you told ME to do one. I would tell you to fuck off, and you wouldn't be seeing my husband again ever! You can bet on that!

You write that and have the nerve to call someone else nasty? You sound like a controlling harpy.

butterfly56 · 04/10/2017 00:58

So the female friend has been planning to get out of her marriage for a year and doesn't want to take responsibility for the break up and instead wants to use you as a scapegoat.

She seems to have problems accepting blame of her own part in the marriage ending and wants to put the blame elsewhere.

Now that her stbxhusband has decided to go and is looking forward to going to Florence for a wedding that you are also attending she's also taken to being pissed off about the situation.

She needs to own up to her own part in the disintegration of her marriage and stop blaming other people.

steve6188 · 04/10/2017 01:02

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BoneyBackJefferson · 04/10/2017 07:09

Linking to those posting about the friend taking responsibility for her actions.

It does seem fortuitous that she has decided to end it just before you go away to the same wedding.

27Feb · 04/10/2017 07:47

BoneyBackJefferson - well, not if that is why the ExH and the OP are going to the wedding together. Presumably if she hadn't ended it, that situation wouldn't have arisen. It isn't the exH's job to sit alone in a room mourning the end of his marriage and avoiding any mutual friends in case his exW takes offense.

Roomster101 · 04/10/2017 08:33

From the wife's point of view OP has taken sides with her DH so she will inevitably be quite angry with her. The daily texting would just add to this as despite what some posters say, I don't think many people would be happy if their DH texted another woman, that they weren't related to on most days. If OP wanted to stay friends with one or both of them she really should have kept out of it.

sailorcherries · 04/10/2017 08:55

Christ all flipping mighty. The OP introduced the man to his wife, meaning she was friendly with both of them before they even knew each other. If she wanted to play happy families with him ahe had plenty of time beforehand or, you know, could not have introduced them.

The OP, the husband and the wife were all invited to a wedding abroad of a mutual friend of the husband and OP. The wife didn't want to go, should the husband then not attend events that she doesn't want to go to? Should the OP not go as it is 'inappropriate' for an unmarried woman to be in the company of a married, male friend?
Why should two friends attending the same event abroad not try to schedule the same flights and accommodation for ease? Because one has a penis and one has a vagina?

The OP also stated that the husband has not spoken about his relationship until it was over. Never once was he bitching and moaning about his wife on a regular basis.

I, personally, think yanbu. The wife is an insecure person who needs to have her friends (who she met through her husband, if they are also the OPs friend), and will do so at any cost.

5rivers7hills · 04/10/2017 09:54

I get the impression many of you don't really have proper friendships because if you did, no way would you bin off a good mate of 10 years just because one of you got married.

Exactly. The wife goes and spreads shit about the OP, about the relationship and the breakup to all and sundry and that is all fine and dandy but the husband dares confide in a long term friend and there is a lynchmob waiting. Okaaaaayyyy then.

Couldn't agree more @Papafran

I would suggest it is GOOD for men and women to have friends of the opposite sex - it really can help that they have trusted, reasonable people to confide in who can provide a different perspective.

Over years before I had DC, I made various male friends through uni and work. Without exception, it always escalated into them having feelings for me or vice versa. Some of them I ended up dating.

@Crescend0 conversely that hasn't happened with my male friends except one who on reflection clearly wanted more from the very start.

Roomster101 · 04/10/2017 10:12

I get the impression many of you don't really have proper friendships because if you did, no way would you bin off a good mate of 10 years just because one of you got married.

I have male friends but they aren't as close as some of my female friends. I have always stood back a bit if they are not single out of respect for the wives/partners. That doesn't mean I wouldn't go out for a drink etc but I certainly wouldn't be texting them every day or discussing the state or my or their relationship. I think that the majority of people have similar boundaries.

RoseWhiteTips · 04/10/2017 10:19

I think you, OP, are being a bit naive. It seems to me you are quite taken with all the drama of this.

scottishdiem · 04/10/2017 10:28

Look. It's easy. There are a whole group of women that cannot cope with their partners bring friends with other women and get all freaked out by it. It's the JCH (jealous, controlling harpy) Gene and nothing can be done about it. Not all women are afflicted by this Gene but it is fairly common.

Papafran · 04/10/2017 10:41

I have male friends but they aren't as close as some of my female friends. I have always stood back a bit if they are not single out of respect for the wives/partners. That doesn't mean I wouldn't go out for a drink etc but I certainly wouldn't be texting them every day or discussing the state or my or their relationship. I think that the majority of people have similar boundaries

Well unlike you I don't base the depth of friendship on what is between my friends' legs. You clearly do, so maybe we should just accept that we are different....

27Feb · 04/10/2017 10:56

It's quite interesting to watch this. There seem to be three distinct groups on this thread, and I'm wondering if it's just one of these debates that can't be resolved as the groups are so different.

  1. People who basically don't think adults should have close friendships. They should aim to get coupled up, get married, have kids, and then the rest of the world is kind of superfluous. Those are the people, I think, saying stuff like 'that is weird - why would you talk to anyone every day? I don't talk to my mother regularly. I'd never discuss my marriage breakdown with anyone, or spend time solo with one friend'.

  2. People who basically don't think men and women can be friends because sex always gets in the way. Because all friendship is based on genitalia and if someone has a penis, that penis will define your every interaction with them. And these people are OK with same-sex friendships once you're in a relationship, but never anything else.

  3. People who see their romantic and sexual relationships as being part of a wider tapestry of social relationships, including friendships, family etc, with all being pretty important. I'm clearly biased here as I'm group 3 and absolutely could not function in group 1 or group 2. But I'm sure the rest of the world thinks we're a bit weird for hanging out with friends, or exchanging mindless chitchat etc. I suspect we're also more likely to be guilty of MN sins such as 'hobbies', but that's a wild guess. Grin

But the point is that I don't really see anyone budging from these groups, and I'm not sure we're going to. Which is cool, if you accept that the three groups exist, that no one is wrong or bad to have those feelings, but it's not fair to assume that yours is the only right way and someone who isn't following your rules is weird and wrong and bad. OP sounds like she's group 3, and that doesn't make her a bad person or some kind of weird femme fatale who is out to steal your man.

Zapdos · 04/10/2017 11:11

And even if their marriage by some miracle survives I doubt he'll be 'allowed' to see or talk to me. If it doesn't and he and I continue to be friends then that's her suspicions basically confirmed. It's all totally shit.

If their marriage breaks down and you continue to be friends it won't 'confirm' anything...other than that you are, in fact, friends. If their marriage breaks down and the husband declares his undying love for you and you reciprocate...then her suspicions are confirmed.

It sounds like a complicated situation. When the wife first mentioned wanting to divorce last year, did she give you any reason why?

Surely your mutual friends all know that you and the H have a purely platonic relationship, so will have been able to set the wife straight?

motherinferior · 04/10/2017 11:17

27Feb, I think I love you. In an entirely non-threatening and cool way, obviously.Grin

I do think group1 is slightly setting itself up for disaster as and when its primary unit collapses - as my octogenarian widowed father is finding - but that is doubtless my failing as an unregenerate sociable person.

minipie · 04/10/2017 11:30

Hmm I'm kind of between group 1 and 3. I think married or long term coupled up people can and indeed should have close friendships. But I think they need to take care that their relationship with their spouse is their closest one. If you have a friend (of either sex) who you speak to every day and discuss very personal stuff like state of your marriage with - and meanwhile you are hardly talking to your spouse and not properly discussing with them how you are feeling - then you are getting into dangerous territory. Not necessarily danger of an affair but certainly danger of your spouse feeling elbowed out.

girlingerrupting · 04/10/2017 11:30

27feb what do you do if you're in group 3 but think your husband is in group 2 certainly and possibly group 1!!

girlingerrupting · 04/10/2017 11:33

I'd add it's pretty hard if you are a female in a male dominated work place when so many women feel like this. Are my colleagues not allowed to be my friends??
(Sorry clearly my own challenges)

Original poster
NameChangedForThisIssue · 04/10/2017 11:35

Zapdos She didn't really go into it too much, just something about her thinking that she felt he had checked-out of the marriage and they were just sort of living like two individuals. I had to sort of push it out of her and decided against pushing any further as I thought well when she's ready she can always confide in me. I rightly or indeed wrongly thought that because I understand her H so well that I'd probably be a good person to confide in so have sent her messages as normal but then she completely stopped responding.
I know that one of our mutual friends did ask her why then if H and I are so involved nothing has happened until now. It didn't seem to make sense because surely I'd either be the reason for the split or now sizing up my opportunity to have him because his marriage is ending. It can't be both.

OP posts:
Original poster
NameChangedForThisIssue · 04/10/2017 11:36

27Feb Very well said!!!!

OP posts:
27Feb · 04/10/2017 11:51

motherinferior - oh, be careful! I'm not just group 3, I'm bisexual group 3, which I believe by the rules of group 1 and 2 mean that I can have no friends! Only prey!

More seriously, I agree completely about the dangers of group 1 in particular. My best friend's mother was very much group 1 - she and her H had no friends at all outside of the family. She was a SAHM and literally only spoke to her H, DCs and DM for weeks at a time. Then her H left her, very suddenly, when she was in her fifties and her DCs had left home and she absolutely collapsed. She had no support, no social contact, nothing. It was really difficult.

girlingerrupting - I genuinely have no idea. I'm terribly aware that I, personally, could not function in a relationship with someone in group 1 or 2 at all. I've tried it once and it was a horror show of epic proportions. I guess all you can do is talk to him and try and find some kind of compromise or understanding. As someone else who spent many years working in a male dominated environment though, and has a lot of male friends as a result I have huge sympathy. I've also had this kind of shit - one colleague of mine wasn't able to lift share to a work event with me because his W didn't think it was appropriate for a man and a woman to be alone in a car together. I don't know, in case we decided to shag rampantly in a lay-by or something, after being overcome by lust at a thrilling display of renewable energy technology.

27Feb · 04/10/2017 11:56

As an add on, I also know I'm struggling to not be judgy about group 1 or 2 as they make no sense to me at all, which might affect my tone. Apologies for this! I'm trying to make sense of it - it just isn't very intuitive. As I'm sure my life isn't intuitive for a lot of the other people on this thread!