Close friends and marriage break-up

[NameChangedForThisIssue]

As you can see from my username I've name changed for this as one of the individuals is on MN.

Two weeks ago a very good friend of mine started divorce proceedings. Her H and I are actually very good friends too and I've known for about a year that she wanted out. He had no idea (though I doubt the veracity of that because who in a marriage doesn't know when it's not going well?)

So anyway, her H and I are going to a wedding in Florence in a week's time for another one of our friend's wedding and we've been planning this over Facebook and WhatsApp messages - amongst our messages he'd write about what's going on with his wife and other things.

It would now appear that I am one of the reasons that she wants to divorce him. I introduced them to each other 10+ years ago and tbh there's never been an issue with our friendship. I've had quite a few boyfriends/dates over the years which I always regaled them with and when I was in a relationship we'd often do things as a 4-some so didn't see the issue.

My friend (the wife) now thinks that actually her husband has become too attached to me and has told our other friends that I too are to blame for the downfall of their marriage.

I just don't understand this. It makes fuck-all sense to me. Surely if we had wanted to be together we've had the best part of 10 years to do so - why would I have suddenly fallen in love with her husband in the past few weeks!?

He and I talk most days and as I said we've always been close and confided in each other but I'm not a home-wrecker.

What I struggle to understand is why she'd think that of me?

I think it's not personal as such - I'd guess she's not thinking straight and is acting on her feelings, which while unfounded and irrational, are still real to her. It sucks to be on the end of, and I'd be hurt too, but all you can do is be straight up with her, act kindly and with dignity withdraw. When it all calms down in a few years she'll probably feel embarrassed.

What exactly did your friends say she said? Would any of them have form for embellishing or stirring the pot to see what'll happen next? If you've not spoken directly to her it's second hand info.

And even if their marriage by some miracle survives I doubt he'll be 'allowed' to see or talk to me. If it doesn't and he and I continue to be friends then that's her suspicions basically confirmed. It's all totally shit.

It is shit. This is the rubbish thing about relationship breakdowns, people do lose touch with friends - your wider circle of friends will feel the pressure to pick sides it too at some point, so it's not just you, though because of this added complication you're under the microscope. Just don't give it any oxygen and hopefully the main drama will blow over in a few months. again.

pandarific Friends have said that she thinks H and I have basically always been in love. She said that he's always been too much involved in my life and I his. I don't think they are embellishing or shit-stirring because as I've said a million times on this thread this would have come up sooner than now.

I'm pretty laid back but if my DH was messaging another woman daily and chronicling the breakdown of his marriage to her then I think I'd be pretty fucking angry.

What about if it was his sister? Or his BFF man friend but he was gay? Or even his straight man BFF?

Can we stop the pretense that man messaging his sister or gay best friend is the same as him messaging another woman.

Talking to a sister or male best friend is not the same at all but perhaps I am biased because in my experience men often have ulterior motives for talking to women about their relationship "problems."

This thread is hilarious and scary at the same time. I have married male friends. I text them. I am not after them and I have never slept with them or come close to sleeping with them. I would have sympathy if their wives went mental because I would feel sorry for them being married to someone so controlling and paranoid. Thankfully they are not married to paranoid people.

This would not be an issue if it was a female friend so the OP's 'crime' is having a vagina and being heterosexual basically. Nice.

Half of all marriages end in divorce so I would be careful about ditching all your mates of the opposite sex as soon as you get married. Chances are pretty high that your spouse won't be around for that long. From reading threads like this, I get the impression many of you don't really have proper friendships because if you did, no way would you bin off a good mate of 10 years just because one of you got married.

If someone wants to cheat on you, they will. Regardless of how much you try to control who they socialise with.

Also, this is such a straight person thread! I've never met a gay man who insists his boyfriend doesn't talk to any other men, or a lesbian who insists her girlfriend only speak with men. Or a bisexual person who keeps their SO locked in a room with no internet access.

Also very true 27Feb. Why do straight women assume that all other women must be after their man and that the only solution is to ban the man from having female friends?

OP, you are very sly. You have made this thread deliberately with lots of identifying details, hoping the wife will see it. Well it's not worked very well for you as the majority of posters are on her side. I feel sorry for her.

papafran

You'd be happy with your husband detailing the intimate parts of the breakdown of your marriage to one of your friends?

Don't fucking think so.

This liberal, I'm so cool with everything and I'm every man's pal and I know all about their lives is all well and good until YOU'RE the victim of what appears to be an emotional affair.

forforksakeitsaspoon - is it an emotional affair if the marriage has broken down? Or is it just, you know, looking for emotional support? Like half the relationships board here? Or is it only OK if it's strangers on the internet?

In my experience, it's very rare to have close male /female friendships that persist over a long period, without some attraction developing on either or both sides. Even if there is genuinely no physical attraction there on either side, there will probably be an emotional closeness that would make it awkward for the respective romantic partners.

There is no way I would be calling up someone else's husband on a daily basis, whether this be over a period of months or whatever. He is her husband before he is my friend and that's it. Or even a single man. Why would I need to do that? I would not even call my best (female) friends every day for months - it's suffocating. Having daily contact with another man is highly disrespectful to my DH and, if the male friend was in a relationship, highly disrespectful to her.

If you book a flight, you go on Sjyscanner or whatever and just do it. You do not need to then go into a conversation that drags on for months and causes speculation and gossip. Not unless you are about 17 years old and enjoy the attention.

forforksakeitsaspoon It's not an emotional affair at all. His marriage is falling apart and I have known him for years and don't think anything he is saying is suggestive or whatever. He hasn't spoken a bad word about his wife even. He knows and has addressed that she talks about our relationship often but then nothing has ever happened with us.

greentea4me Thanks. I'm the sly one indeed.

You'd be happy with your husband detailing the intimate parts of the breakdown of your marriage to one of your friends?

Fork if our relationship had broken down, then yes, I would expect him to be able to confide in his friends about a very stressful life event. This is hypothetical anyway- I don't have a husband and I am not heterosexual. I am not trying to be liberal or cool, but why is it OK for a woman to cry on the shoulder of her friends about her relationship breakdown, but it is wrong for a man to confide in a long term friend regarding the same thing? Why do we have double standards?

I don't care if your male female gay striaght or bi.

Becoming dependant on contacting one exact person isn't healthy. There is a difference between one friend being your all and looking for support from a group of friends.

I'm afraid I think you have been elbowed into a difficult position. I feel for you but the trip to Florence was really not going to go well from the start and you were a bit naive there. In RL I have to say I've never met any of these men who are so keen to make friends with single women just so that they can mull over their relationships productively.

This thread somehow encapsulates all the crap that women put each other through.

The belief that all single women are after your man. No, they’re not. And it just makes you sound tragic.

The belief that women are not capable of platonic friendships with men.

That married women are somehow of higher status than single women eg it’s not ok for the OP to ask for advice for her situation because a married woman might feel put out.

Get over yourselves and your petty jealousies and insecurities. If you’re uncomfortable with the notion that men and women can be friends, check yourself in for therapy. If you believe a single woman should tiptoe around married women reassuring them at every point that they are not interested in your partner, consider a lobotomy. It’s 2017, time we moved on from this shit.

What a crock of shit chattymummyhere. Seriously. So it's not OK to talk through a bad breakup with a good friend, it now has to be a group of friends? Why is that? Admit that if this was a female friend, you would be all for spilling your guts about your awful breakup over bottles of wine and boxes of chocolates. So hypocritical that that is impossible simply because of the respective genitalia of the friends involved.

Agree 100% with the last post about the implication that married women are of a higher status. So I must give up meaningful friendships that I have had for years because of some weird notion that I would be showing disrespect to someone who is too paranoid to trust her partner around someone of the opposite sex? Right-ho.

Also, did you not understand that this marriage is OVER? As in they have split. Husband is surprised and upset and confides in friend. Should he bottle it up and let it fester instead? He can't talk about it at all? Sounds great.

lifetimelimit
I'm pretty laid back but if my DH was messaging another woman daily and chronicling the breakdown of his marriage to her then I think I'd be pretty fucking angry.

Yet the wife has been talking about her marriage for a year and that is OK

and she has ended the relationship, he can confide in who he likes.

You maybe pretty fucking angry but you/her would no longer have any say in what he does.

Yet the wife has been talking about her marriage for a year and that is OK

Exactly. The wife goes and spreads shit about the OP, about the relationship and the breakup to all and sundry and that is all fine and dandy but the husband dares confide in a long term friend and there is a lynchmob waiting. Okaaaaayyyy then.

That married women are somehow of higher status than single women eg it’s not ok for the OP to ask for advice for her situation because a married woman might feel put out.

God, that's so accurate. With added weird Victorian overtones about spinsters knowing their place.

There is no point protesting your innocence at this stage. Divorce, even if she has been planning it for a long time, is a painful, frustrating and emotional time for all involved. Right now, she is directing her anger at you and there is not much you can do about it. I would not contact her. Leave her be. Be there for your friend, as he will probably need you, if you value the friendship.
Of course, this will make it look like she was right all along but once things have settled and you are not together with him it will be clear to everyone that there was no secret wish-we-were-together.
You are going to Florence with her (stbex-)husband, no justifying yourself is going to make any difference at the moment, even if she read this thread. Let time do its thing.

Let time do its thing

That's what I know is the right answer but what I just can't wait for.

I don't even fancy Florence now anymore as of course our mutual friends will be there as will he. It's just shit all round. Why could she have not just talked to me. Why? And even if she read our messages there's nothing clandestine or inappropriate. Surely any reasonable person could see that. I've never been involved in their relationship other than introducing them to each other and organising dinner/drinks on occasion. What have I done?

Boys wear blue
Girls wear pink
Boys are not allowed to cry
Girls hug and can cry
Boys do not talk about feelings 'man up'
Girls have girlfriends they can talk to (and compete with) in in
Boys play with cars and trucks
Girls play with dolls and tea sets
Boys pick subjects like PE, sciences and are terrible at humanities
Girlies love literature and languages any humanities are more suited
Boys career choices engineers, pilots secondary school teacher
Girls career choices secretary
Boys that like 'girls' stuff are cissies
Girls that like boys stuff are tomboys
Men don't know how to cook or clean properly. And only babysit their kids
Women naturally know how to look after the home.
There is something wrong with a sahd. Why doesn't he want to go out and support his wife and children
Of course it makes more sense for her to stay at home, women are better with children than men

Finally, men and women cannot be friends without sex or romantic love getting involved.

Funny how we wouldn't (I hope) make those statements on the first list, but the second is okay