Close friends and marriage break-up

[NameChangedForThisIssue]

As you can see from my username I've name changed for this as one of the individuals is on MN.

Two weeks ago a very good friend of mine started divorce proceedings. Her H and I are actually very good friends too and I've known for about a year that she wanted out. He had no idea (though I doubt the veracity of that because who in a marriage doesn't know when it's not going well?)

So anyway, her H and I are going to a wedding in Florence in a week's time for another one of our friend's wedding and we've been planning this over Facebook and WhatsApp messages - amongst our messages he'd write about what's going on with his wife and other things.

It would now appear that I am one of the reasons that she wants to divorce him. I introduced them to each other 10+ years ago and tbh there's never been an issue with our friendship. I've had quite a few boyfriends/dates over the years which I always regaled them with and when I was in a relationship we'd often do things as a 4-some so didn't see the issue.

My friend (the wife) now thinks that actually her husband has become too attached to me and has told our other friends that I too are to blame for the downfall of their marriage.

I just don't understand this. It makes fuck-all sense to me. Surely if we had wanted to be together we've had the best part of 10 years to do so - why would I have suddenly fallen in love with her husband in the past few weeks!?

He and I talk most days and as I said we've always been close and confided in each other but I'm not a home-wrecker.

Tbh it sounds as if she's using this as an excuse.
But giving her the benefit of the doubt,it's not necessarily YOU that is the problem,but his relationship with you and how he talk/acts about it. You are not in their house so you have no idea if he's ignoring her to talk to you, prioritising you and your chats,if she asked him to cool off the relationship or not go to the wedding with you and he refused.

Just imagine... her:DH are you coming to bed? Him: in a minute I'm chatting to x.
Her: let's cuddle and watch a movie.
Him: ok. , but spends the whole time on the other end of the sofa tapping away.

It doesn't matter if it's identifying, that's the point of NCing, because it's identifying! After this thread the OP can go back to her usual name and use MN without being linked to the thread.

OP I don't think you can get away from the fact that by continuing to talk to her DH on a regular basis after their break up was announced, you have effectively 'picked a side'. And that might be ok, it sounds like you are much better friends with him than you are with her. But this will have an inevitable impact on how mutual friends see you, and unfortunately your motives may be misconstrued. Especially if other mutual friends are a) closer to her and b) couples (who may have an instinctive distrust of male:female platonic friendships which you can see from many of the PPs on this thread).
If they can believe dishonesty and cheating of you, then are they really your friends? Is their friendship more important to you than his? If so, then you may need to make some explanations and disengage from him. If he is more important, then just own your friendship and let the gossipers gossip. If you guys stay 'just' friends then they and she may realise in time that they were unfair.

You started off talking about your 'friend and her husband'. But then you say you speak to him most days, while you seem to speak to her much less. He's been (in your words) using you for emotional support when (your words again) he should have spoken to his wife.

Do you really not see that this has created a bond between the two of you that excludes his wife? And that's without the wedding issue where she says she doesn't feel like going, and his response is 'fair enough, I'll see what NameChange is doing and we can hang out in Italy together'. You never thought this looked problematic? To go to a wedding, effectively, as the companion of someone else's husband?

If none of this ever struck you as a problem, then I think there is a clear possibility you have overstepped boundaries without being aware of it. I think you should also take a hard look at your inner feelings and think about whether you've been aware of this but pushed that to the back of your mind because you were enjoying the closeness with your friend's husband and didn't want to have to rein it in or admit it was becoming a problem.

What's wrong with all of these women? What a man and woman can't be friends? Why are women so insecure- my husbands best friends are females. He has been on holiday with them, and confides in them too.

I don't feel insecure about that bond. We are all adults. We choose to be with each other. What will you tell your kids next? That boys should only be friends with boys, and girls only with girls?? I choose not to be that backward way and I choose to not raise my children that way too.

Op I don't think you've done anything wrong, people don't divorce over something stupid like this- she obviously wants a reason and had jumped on this.

Ignore your miserable sexist friend. Go to the wedding and enjoy Florence with your FRIEND

I think the OP is getting a rather unfair lot of stick here. She's only been talking daily to the husband since his wife announced she wanted a divorce. And I get the impression that it's him messaging her.

If I were the OP I'd be pulling away from both of them, as painful as that might be for her. She's caught in between, and the wife is now making her a convenient whipping boy. I'd drop any contact for a bit - I'd respond to the husband briefly and after a delay, but just step back for a bit & let them sort it out.

Also I think there are a couple of other things going on here in general terms: in general terms, some men can be a bit thick about the nuances of emotional dynamics of a situation. They're socialised this way - they can sometimes let the women they love do the "emotional housework" in the relationship. So the OP's male friend may just not realise how his wife views his current behaviour. Or he may be so upset & befuddled by his wife wanting a divorce, that he's just not thinking straight. Hard to blame him for that really ...

And the other thing is that, unfortunately, some men do stray. They have inappropriate relationships, they are careless of their wives' feelings; they compartmentalise; they don't invest as much as women in domestic partnerships. Some men.

So the wife may well be making assumptions about her husband - going by your responses, many of you posting would find his behaviour threatening, and make you feel insecure.

It's just sad the way single women get this sort of jealousy and suspicion. OP you sound like a thoughtful caring friend - you're caught in an impossible situation at the moment. I hope you emerge unscathed. Good luck.

@jaseyraex

My best friend in the world is a married man, I speak to him every single day and sometimes he speaks about his wife and I speak about my husband. The same way I would with a friend of the same sex. I'd be mortified if his wife suddenly started saying things like this and I'd be telling her to do one. If she doesn't trust her own husband then that's her own problem.

What a nasty arrogant post. You sound massively entitled!

So as long as YOU are all right, and your friendship with your BFF, (the married man!) continues to blossom and shine, and you get to talk to him EVERY DAY, everyone else can fuck off, including his wife.

And why the hell do you need to speak to him every day? That's just fucking weird, intense, and frankly suffocating. Most women would not be happy with this, if their husband was this close to a female 'friend.' And I am willing to bet your husband is not particularly chuffed about it either, even if he never says anything.

You'd get a short shrift from me if I was unhappy with my husband's clingy female BFF, and you told ME to do one. I would tell you to fuck off, and you wouldn't be seeing my husband again ever! You can bet on that!

@chattymummyhere

I think anyone needing to be in contact every day with a particular person would be an issue outside of work. It makes you emotionally dependant on each other.

If my husband was having to text/call/talk to a certain friend every single day And going away with them I would be getting my ducks in row and would likely mention their dependency on X friend as one of the reasons.

@Crescend0

What possible reason would you need to talk to her DH every day? Why? I don't even ring my mum every day.

These 2 ^ It's unnatural and weird for a married man to have contact with a platonic female friend every single day, especially one who says she would tell his wife to 'DO ONE' if she didn't like it. Fuck me! The nerve of some people!

Gosh you are all so insecure. Quick go check on your partners- they may be speaking (without your permission) with a female friend.

Ha ha. I'm out- got no time for insecure, petty people.

Night to all the sane women. X

Is it hard to read an original post? The every day chat has been since the break-up and in relation to the up-coming trip, not an everyday occurrence for the last 10 years.

Ts27 goodnight. I think there may have been 2 or 3 of us😂

OP I have not read all the posts but I would take a step back if I were you.

NameChangedForThisIssue
It's not like we're even sleeping in the same room. We literally are just sharing a flight and have a wander around Florence for a few days.

The above is a bit puzzling, are you suggesting it would be perfectly normal to share a room with the DH?

Is talking/texting every single day a thing now? I've never done that with female or male friends.

So, I have probably two friends I chat to on a daily basis and have done for ages - a straight female friend and a gay male friend.

I also periodically email or message a friend and get into a conversation that may last a few days or a week or so (couple of emails per day) and during that period, yeah, I've mailed various attached men. No drama.

My DH also has close female friends he talks to. Because they are friends. He has so far managed to not be overcome by the scent of estrogen on the air and come back to me.

And if you have different boundaries and don't think it's ok to have friendships/support etc outside of the relationship then that's your choice. Whatever two consenting adults do is up to them, although it sounds kind of weird and claustrophobic to me. But that doesn't mean other people's boundaries are wrong, and the only person who has a duty to enforce relationship boundaries, especially boundaries as subjective as "how often is one party permitted to speak to someone of the other gender", is the person in the relationship.

The every day chat has been since the break-up and in relation to the up-coming trip, not an everyday occurrence for the last 10 years.

Indeed.

A lot of insecure women here. It's really sad that women are so suspicious.

I hope you're ok OP there are some nasty projections here. Look after yourself

SilverySurfer No not suggesting that in the slightest. It's basically what she's told one of our friends. I would never countenance sleeping in the same room as a married man. Same hotel yes and sitting together on the flight yes but I do not intend to spend my time in Italy shagging him

^Just imagine... her:DH are you coming to bed? Him: in a minute I'm chatting to x.
Her: let's cuddle and watch a movie.
Him: ok. , but spends the whole time on the other end of the sofa tapping away^

Seeing as the wife told OP, a year ago, that she wasn't happy with her DH anymore, I very much doubt she's been asking for cuddles in the two weeks OP and her DH have been communicating.

I generally agree with PP, it would be weird if my DH started confiding in another woman suddenly, however OP has known him for 10 years so it's not a new friendship.

Surely if a friendship has lasted 10 years and still going, then opening up about something as big as a marriage break down is normal?

In any case, why is it that the wife is perfectly reasonable for spilling about her marriage a year ago?

OP has said several times that they have been communicating for two weeks, yet marriage seems to have been ending for at least a year.

OP, if they're both friendships that you value, and you know this the case for sure and not just someone shit stirring, then I'd ask her - not him - directly.
There could be many reasons she blames you. As a pp said, she could suspect an affair, and you being a close friend, could be the no1 suspect.
She could have even said 'he's been more bothered about Florence with 'NameChanged' than listening to me' and whoever she has said it to has taken it to mean more than it did.

As you can see from this thread, there'd be plenty of people who would find your trip to Florence sinister, so I wouldn't be suprised if another friend has even put an idea into her head about it.

Or he could just basically have found misplaced feelings for you, which have occured during a year long marriage breakdown and he's told her at some point.

If you really want to know, you'll just have to ask her. If you ask him, and he does in fact have feelings for you, he could not tell you the truth.

Jesus. I guess according to some people here I can't have a close friendship with anyone since I'm bi-sexual.

The wife is clearly just trying to win over their mutual friends. If she actually had issues with OP and her DH's relationship she wouldn't have been confiding in OP about their marriage problems. The Florence thing is a total red herring. The wife was invited and chose not to go, most likely because she already knew she'd be ending things.

Am I the only person on this thread whose partner would back carefully out of the room if they suddenly suggested cuddling up and watching a movie?

I also hugely miss a very dear friend with whom I used to swap gossip and jokes. He was married. His wife was and is lovely. He loved her. He was friends with me.

That's rough OP, but not your fault.

I'd email your female friend, with her husband cced, being as clear as clear can be that you've only EVER been friends and nothing else, but say you're sorry if the two of you chatting made her uncomfortable and that you had no idea that was the case. Reassure her that you're her friend too, and as a goodwill gesture / to avoid getting in the middle of things say you'll go your own way in Florence. Maybe or maybe not depending on what's appropriate for your friendship, send her some flowers?

Yes it's a bit annoying and not your fault, but she's going to be all over the place seeing her marriage is breaking up. Maybe it was the mere fact of seeing him message someone who he seems to like and care about, when that's gone from their own relationship was enough to upset her? She's going to be pretty raw.

It sucks, but distance yourself kindly and give them no reason to involve you any further.

I still have no idea what a Side Hoe is, I had to google it.

@tippz fucking hell why are you so aggressive about @jaseyraex having a friendship with a man?

I get the sense on here that lots of people don’t actually have any really good friends. Most people seem to focus on getting themselves a man (any man?) and then protecting their catch to the detriment of having any other close bonds.

Jesus. I guess according to some people here I can't have a close friendship with anyone since I'm bi-sexual

@kmc1111 yeah you home wrecker! Maybe you should just stay inside so as to not break up anyone’s relationship.

@motherinferior do you mean you can’t talk to your friend as much because his wife doesn’t like it? Your post could also be interpreted that your friend has sadly passed away. If so I’m sorry.

OMGosh. Do woman really refer to others as 'side hoes' these days?

Dreadful!

I meant he died. Sorry, I was ambiguous. He died three years ago now and we all miss him a lot.

“Ho” means “whore”. So it’s an even more offensive version of “bit on the side”. Grim.

pandarific I think you're right. I will send her an e-mail to clarify it. I think it's shit all round tbh as now it's going to make things awkward for me and her H to be friends and I don't want to be the talk of the wedding or create an atmosphere. So in the space of weeks I've essentially lost 2 friends for no reason at all. What I struggle to understand is why she'd think that of me? It's not like I'm the only female friend of her H's and if I had designs on him I'd never have waited so long. And even if their marriage by some miracle survives I doubt he'll be 'allowed' to see or talk to me. If it doesn't and he and I continue to be friends then that's her suspicions basically confirmed. It's all totally shit.

Op I think she is just using all of this as an excuse to divorce. Blaming someone else for her wanting to leave. Unless she told him how unhappy she was about him talking to you often and he said he wouldn't stop and he liked you. I don't see why this would be a problem. I have a lovely male friend for over 20 years. We used to live in the same house when I met my husband and I still talk to him often. My husband ask how he is and likes him. Never happened anything between us and never would. And my husband trust me. So if his wife don't trust him it's her problem. I would no go to Florence with him though