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AIBU?

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Original poster

what the jeff is going on in Catalunia?

253 replies

ludothedog · 01/10/2017 08:58

whether the vote is legitimate or not, for goodness sake, is deploying riot police to remove voters/protesters the right way? Terrible, Just terrible.

Can you imagine what would have happened if riot police were deployed to stop the Scottish independence referendum?

Surely by denying the Catalan people the vote all they will do is galvanise support for independence?

OP posts:
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6
PoppyPopcorn · 01/10/2017 13:13

Police are removing and destroying ballot boxes - very hard to say that any result is valid, whatever the outcome.

MadgeMidgerson · 01/10/2017 13:16

apparently, if you are in the EU/NATO then anything goes as far as what you can do to your own people

nice

BCNChica · 01/10/2017 13:20

Everyone knew it was going to get heated. People have camped out in schools are basically using the kids as a human shield. The mossos are notoriously protective when there are kids about, but now the national police forces are involved who knows.

Justanotherlurker · 01/10/2017 13:26

Police are removing and destroying ballot boxes - very hard to say that any result is valid, whatever the outcome.

There is nothing about how it's going today that changes the ref's validity in the eyes of the various groups. Even without police brutality and active suppression, the Spanish govt and unionists wouldn't consider it valid. And even if votes have to be cast into trash bins on street corners, the pro-independence side will think it is.

It was never going to be a process run to the highest standards of international best practise. This is, for lack of a better word, a 'homemade' referendum. Not because anybody running it wants it to be that way, but because they have no other choice if they want to run it at all.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 01/10/2017 13:29

I can kind of get the bringing their kids along, because there must be a feeling of they are all in it together, whether or not they individually want independence and I suspect they didn’t think that the police would actually go after them with the kids there, but the way I’ve seen riot police in other european countries treat kids, it’s not that surprising if they are similar.

Thank you for the link about how this has come about.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 01/10/2017 13:33

Aunti - that clip is truly shocking.

LurkingHusband · 01/10/2017 13:34

It's only when you watch events like this from afar, that you realise quite "what the point" of history is. One of the reasons that some people are struggling to grasp the situation is because Britain, England, the UK - whatever combination you like - has had the luxury of being "settled" for a lot longer than most of Europe. Even Yorkshire - Gods own country Smile - is considered and considers itself part of England.

It's the one area that I would concede makes us "different".

Looking away from Spain, but again within Europe, it's only been 150 years since Italy became "Italy" (Garibaldi and all that). Before it was a ragbag collection of city states usually fighting each other.

I chose Italy as a deliberate example, as there is quite a strong independence movement in Sicily which is to all intents and purposes a separate country with it's own languages, flag, and culture (e.g. like Scotland).

BCNChica · 01/10/2017 13:35

Last week on the class whatsapp groups it was very much 'Bring the kids and they won't touch us' attitude. Like I said if it was only the mossos they would have been correct. However national are run by Madrid.

There's been loads of talk the last couple of weeks. They knew violence was a very real possibility.

babybarrister · 01/10/2017 13:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadgeMidgerson · 01/10/2017 13:43

One of the reasons that some people are struggling to grasp the situation is because Britain, England, the UK - whatever combination you like - has had the luxury of being "settled" for a lot longer than most of Europe.

Yes quite. So lucky to not have any separatist movements here in Britain, England, the UK or whatever you like 👀

annandale · 01/10/2017 13:45

Lh, seriously? You can't see any parallels in UK politics at all? Come on, Airey Neave only died in 1979 (erm 1980?), John Major had a missile fired at him in 1992, it's not that long ago.

OhtoblazeswithElvira · 01/10/2017 13:46

Just heard on radio 4 that there is a ship full of Guardia Civil (one of the Spanish police bodies) at the harbour in Barcelona. If that is correct the echoes of the Spanish civil war must be truly chilling for people in Barcelona right now Shock

I wonder what those people in the police / guardian civil are feeling right now. If they feel they are doing the right thing or they are petrified of losing their jobs Sad

MrsJayy · 01/10/2017 13:47

Older Buildings in catalonia have bullet holes in them so spain really isn't the last place you would see this. But it is horrific how serious this is getting Sad

LurkingHusband · 01/10/2017 13:48

Yes quite. So lucky to not have any separatist movements here in Britain, England, the UK or whatever you like

I didn't say that ...

Any separatist movement in Britain, England, the UK is going to be coming from a different place and into a different environment than the Catalonians. Hence posters here not understanding the why or whats going on.

I'm not saying everything is peachy in the UK. But that compared to some parts of Europe we are a long-settled island.

(Personally, I've always felt it was this long-settled status which gave the British Empire a leg-up on the world stage).

BCNChica · 01/10/2017 13:51

There were two ships full of police ready at the port this morning.

A few days ago we spoke to my friends husband. He was not looking forward to it and knew he would be called in. He will lose his job if he doesn't.

MadgeMidgerson · 01/10/2017 13:51

I don’t think it’s the long settled status that gave the uk a leg up, more its barbarity and willingness to commit atrocities for wealth

again, it’s cute how being a nato ans eu member offers a fig leaf for any old violent oppression a government may care to commit

LurkingHusband · 01/10/2017 13:52

Lh, seriously? You can't see any parallels in UK politics at all? Come on, Airey Neave only died in 1979 (erm 1980?), John Major had a missile fired at him in 1992, it's not that long ago.

I can see some parallels - I'm not an idiot. But even those terrible incidents are memorable because they were relatively rare. Although we could easily see a revival, if Brexit manages to bork the Good Friday Agreement.

As I said, we haven't really had to deal with an armed Yorkshire Independence Army for a while.

LurkingHusband · 01/10/2017 13:53

One from the archives ...

babybarrister · 01/10/2017 13:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

user1471596238 · 01/10/2017 13:56

I'm pretty sure I read that there wasn't an overwhelming support for independence so this police action is only likely to be counterproductive and inflame passions amongst the Catalonian population. It certainly doesn't/wouldn't surprise me to see outside parties meddling in this though.

GardenGeek · 01/10/2017 13:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LurkingHusband · 01/10/2017 14:00

I'm pretty sure I read that there wasn't an overwhelming support for independence

Isn't that a bit like believing Theresa May about Scottish Independence ????

cdtaylornats · 01/10/2017 14:08

Lurking - no it's more like believing Nicola Sturgeon when she says people want another referendum.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 01/10/2017 14:13

catalan news has a live feed. I just saw a very large group of protesters, many older people, who were sitting or standing peacefully, just chanting and blocking the way being fired on indiscriminately by rubber bullets at close range.

Uokbing · 01/10/2017 14:15

I can't believe that people are saying they can't imagine the British government doing anything like this?!!!