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AIBU?

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Original poster

what the jeff is going on in Catalunia?

253 replies

ludothedog · 01/10/2017 08:58

whether the vote is legitimate or not, for goodness sake, is deploying riot police to remove voters/protesters the right way? Terrible, Just terrible.

Can you imagine what would have happened if riot police were deployed to stop the Scottish independence referendum?

Surely by denying the Catalan people the vote all they will do is galvanise support for independence?

OP posts:
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6
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/10/2017 11:54

In Spain we are seeing the result of succesive governments demonising a part of the population. We cannot kid ourselves that this is not going on in the UK

What are you on about? Which part of the UK population is being "demonised" by the UK government?

OhtoblazeswithElvira · 01/10/2017 12:02

Erm, immigrants? God does this really need saying? Shock

OhYouBadBadKitten · 01/10/2017 12:09

Some really shocking scenes. Absolutely no need to send in armed police into this situation.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 01/10/2017 12:11

fuck, there’s little kids and older people people being surrounded by the police and being manhandled. Just saw one little kid sitting on a parents shoulders, surrounded and being jostled, looking terrified.

DaisyLand · 01/10/2017 12:12

I’m Basque , the other area in Spain where there is a strong separatist feeling (you might have heard about it cuz of the terrorist group in the past called ETA)

I’ve to say I’m not surprised at all about what’s going on. The Spanish government has always refused to listen to the citizens (no matter whether they’re in favour or against the independence or even the referendum ) , they keep the same thoughts as the dictatorship Spain went through 40 years ago. The current party in the government was formed from people that was in power when this dictatorship was happening and in case you’re not aware is the party which has more corruption around Europe.
I’m glad the news are making the world , the repression we’ve been going through in the last 10-15 years is finally coming out to the world.
My Catalonian friends keep texting me about the police brutality and how many of their social media has been capped. Government is the 1st one demanding speech of freedom , however, they’re the 1st ones to deny it.
I’m ashamed once more about this government who refuses to listen to the citizens , I’m proud about my “sieblings” the Catalonians

OhYouBadBadKitten · 01/10/2017 12:16

Daisyland and BCN if you get a chance, please can you point me in the direction of where I can read more about the situation and the history, to my shame it’s something I’m pretty ignorant about.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 01/10/2017 12:18

Erm, immigrants? God does this really need saying?

What has that got to do with independence refererenda? 

Justanotherlurker · 01/10/2017 12:21

What has that got to do with independence refererenda? 

Nothing, its an attempt at virtue signalling and is not understanding the situation at all

DaisyLand · 01/10/2017 12:21

This is the story behind Catalonians independence. The feeling of independence was increased in 2010 when the Spanish government banned many of the local laws but granted them
To other areas of Spain. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/11179914/Why-does-Catalonia-want-independence-from-Spain.html

Regarding today , it’s everywhere in the news today how police is hitting elderlies , children and people in general and shooting rubber balls which are forbidden in this area of Spain.

PoppyPopcorn · 01/10/2017 12:28

Some Catalonians wanting to separate from Spain is nothing new. Their language and culture was oppressed during the Franco years, just like in the Pais Vasco and Galicia. Basque separatists just had a higher profile because of ETA.

I think the Madrid government has misjudged this; experts feel that if they had allowed the referendum to go ahead the results would have been along the lines of the Scottish referendum - 55% to stay in Spain. Now you've got the situation that whatever happens, the government aren't going to recognise the results of the referendum.

Deploying the Guardia Civil is also seen as a political move - during the dictatorship they were very much seen as right wing and a tool of the State. Spain has different "types" of Police depending on where you are. When I lived in Bilbao the Guardia Civil were much more unpopular than the local Basque police (who had very cool red berets).

Herbcake · 01/10/2017 12:29

Spain have already had the vote declared as having no legal weight through the courts. So I don't know why they didn't just ignore it, why make a big thing of trying to prevent it?

PoppyPopcorn · 01/10/2017 12:32

I'm not making excuses for violence by either side - but this was expected. Why ON EARTH would you take a kid out with you to vote if you knew/expected there would be trouble?

I lived in Bilbao in the 90s - when it was on the local news that the Basque nationalists were having a march/protest you avoided the old town not because you opposed their views but because you knew there would be trouble and you had no desire to be caught up in it!

pisacake · 01/10/2017 12:32

They want to suppress turnout. So if they get only 10% of the population voting then it has no meaning.

MadgeMidgerson · 01/10/2017 12:34

Because voting isn’t inherently violent?

Should anyone who wasn’t prepared to fight in the streets have stayed home? No voting if you are elderly or disabled because it could get rough?

wow some democracy

PoppyPopcorn · 01/10/2017 12:38

Trouble was predicted. Police were forcibly evicting people from polling stations yesterday and Friday. This is not a "normal" voting situation.

IrenetheQuaint · 01/10/2017 12:45

Can't believe how badly the Spanish government have handled this situation. Say what you like about the British government (and God knows I often do), it's impossible to imagine them sending in the armed police to quell peaceful voting.

PerkingFaintly · 01/10/2017 12:45

DaisyLand, thanks for that article.

Aunti · 01/10/2017 12:47

Bloody hell old woman bashed on the head, woman pulled through a door by her hair, numberous been thrown down stairs for trying to vote! Shock

Warning v upsetting:

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/10/2017 12:54

This is not a "normal" voting situation

Because the Spanish government is making it that way. Do you really think it is right that people should be intimidated into not voting?

DaisyLand · 01/10/2017 12:54

There is a difference IrenetheQuaint between Spain and the UK. Uk has always allowed the referendums Scotland and brexit (apart from indi2) despite they were against it. Spanish government always refuses to speak and reach and agreement and this annoys most of us. Seems like we can only vote for the next big brother winner in Spain. We feel we still live under a dictatorship, one of the reasons why I don’t want to go back to Spain to live is cuz I don’t want to be living under one.

It’s ashaming the images that you can see today about it. But I’m not surprised , I wished my Catalonian friends this morning when I woke up a peaceful and good day as I’m afraid some of them will be caught in these riots.
Btw most of us that want the independence aren’t against Spaniards , my parents were born in central Spain and have loads of friends around the country , we just want to live peacefully all together without anyone Banning our laws just for the shake of it.

PerkingFaintly you’re welcome !

MadgeMidgerson · 01/10/2017 12:55

oh yes good old British government - you can count on them not to be violent or oppressive —on the uk mainland—

OhtoblazeswithElvira · 01/10/2017 13:06

Can't believe how badly the Spanish government have handled this situation.

This. Like a pp said, they should have called the bluff and held the referendum which was forecast to be a no to independence. Then everyone would have had to move on until the next referendum.

To pp, l have a pretty good understanding of the situation. I have family living in BCN; some support independence and some don't - most are sick to the back teeth of all the divisive politics (ring a bell?). They are all politically aware as am I. The point I was making was not about police brutality or ways to achieve secession, it was purely about how destructive it is for governments to scapegoat a part of the population. Something that worked nicely for a few Spanish governments has now become a problem that has spiralled out of control. The independence movement has long roots in Catalonia but its latest wave has been nurtured and fed by the Spanish government.

The questions that I am wondering about are:

  1. what will happen tomorrow?

2.The EU has been so quiet on this- IMO they have missed a chance to provide a space for negotiation. Will there be an official statement tomorrow, and if so will it take sides?

PoppyPopcorn · 01/10/2017 13:07

Of course people should be able to vote without intimidation. The Spanish government have handed this spectacularly badly - no argument there.

But the violence and disruption was widely predicted, which is why you have to question people putting their kids in that situation.

Will be interesting to see what happens if the Yes vote wins and Catalunya declares independence from the rest of Spain.

orlantina · 01/10/2017 13:10

*Will be interesting to see what happens if the Yes vote wins and Catalunya declares independence from the rest of Spain\8

Given all the steps they've taken to prevent people voting, I don't know how a vote can even take place properly.

LurkingHusband · 01/10/2017 13:13

oh yes good old British government - you can count on them not to be violent or oppressive —on the uk mainland— (sic)

There are a few miners who would disagree. Not that they count ...