To wonder why it's such a big deal to take children for dinner in the UK

[tinypop4]

Not originally from the UK- where I'm from it is totally normal to take children out in the eve.
Last night we had guests staying so we went for dinner at the local curry place. We took our dd who is almost 5 and our friends Dd who is almost 4. We went at 7pm, they behaved well- stayed at the table other than to go to the toilet, chatter, coloured, ate off the ordinary menu. They didn't shout, run around or cause any drama and we left at 9.15.
In the course of this 2 hours I had 4 different people telling me that it was 'very late for young children' 'they should be in bed' and one whispered loudly and in ear shot that it's 'cruel to have children out as late as 9pm'.

Now if they were over tired toddlers ,
Screaming, tantrumming etc I could understand if people might feel annoyed by their presence but in this case I didn't get it.

We were stared at a lot and were the only people out with children and despite having a nice calm evening, felt quite annoyed by the end. Why are children so unwelcome out in the evening here? Maybe I'm being unreasonable and children shouldn't come out in the evening but I think ta a shame

British people don't like children very much. Look at their schools.

What colour is the sky in your world?

I don't think that it is a big deal to take children for dinner in the UK . I think it is rarer to see children up in the night. Especially in the winter. But not completely unheard of. Some people may comment, depending on the area and type of restaurant. It annoys me though when people babble on about well behaved children up late in restaurants in latin countries. Children vary. What I have noticed is it is the attitude towards children that differs rather than the children and the parenting skills themselves. Where I live in South America all the restaurants have trampolines and or soft play areas. Children are not expected to be quiet and if they cry or are upset, rather than tutting or complaining, it is more culturally acceptable for strangers try to cheer them up. Children up late in restaurants is the norm, but they are far from wooden children at the table playing educational games and colouring in . I like the way things are here, but I also like going out in the UK and getting away from my kids and other people's. Both have good points.

So much depends on whether a) the children can last without getting too tired, and b) whether they can behave themselves reasonably well. Children crying and wailing from fatigue, or shouting/running around in restaurants are a PITA for both diners and staff.

If neither of these apply, then other people should mind their own business. But there will always be the odd one who likes to poke their nose in and give an unsolicited opinion.

OP, people should mind their own business if yours were well behaved children not causing a fuss and enjoying their meal. You left before the crowds came in but clearly not before the numpties.

No one should comment on children unless they're being disruptive, rude or in danger.

@Strawberrygate - the French restaurant might have had problems with children before. At least you got a wonderful private dining room.

SuburbanRhonda I hope you're a vegan or a vegetarian otherwise you're being a massive hypocrite.

Sure am and have been for 35 years

What time do Spanish children start school if they finish at 5pm and are up eating supper at 10pm?

My DD was in Infantil and Primaria before we came back to the UK and she was in school from 9-5 ... but they had a half hour breakfast break in the morning and then lunch was from 12-3 (in Primaria it's 1-3). Most children go home for lunch but for kids who stay (I taught an older grade at my DD's school so if I had lunch meetings/classes at that time she would stay for lunch on those days) they have lunch in the dining room, then they have free time to play - a lot of schools do clubs/classes during this time rather than having after school clubs.

In Infantil the extra hour is used for nap time - while the kids are at lunch/playing the staff set up the quiet room with little cot beds and blankets (DD's school had a set up like the one in the picture, but instead of cupboards they had drawer units where every kid could keep a favourite blanket/teddy from home for naptime) and they'd have an hour nap and then 20 minutes of "wake up time" where they'd have story time or some other quiet activity to let them wake up properly before they went back to their specific classrooms.

As you get into ESO (Yr7+) some schools move from 9-5 and go from 8am till 2/3pm with just an hour break at about 11am for a "late breakfast" and then they finish at lunch time and have the whole afternoon free.

You know what, the only time I've ever been made to feel unwelcome in a restaurant was in France.

Yessss. Just back from France. Treated really really frostily taking the kids out - 4 occasions - all different places.

Back on the ferry and ate at the a la carte restaurant on the way home. Surrounded by brits - they commented how good the kids were at eating, waitress encouraged us to take anything we wanted for the kids. unfortunately DD decided at the end of the meal to start melting. I got her out and apologised to the nearest tables who were all lovely and said how they thought it was lovely to see kids enjoying themselves etc.

It's put me off going back to France actually - we like eating out and I don't expect a frosty reception about bringing in (usually!) well behaved kids.

Italy on the other hand was amazing when DD was little.

It is so hard to compare different attitudes, as when you are abroad, you are generally on holiday, in a touristy area. Rules are different.

If we've had a hard time eating anywhere, I've basically forgotten it. Maybe the memories will come flooding back when I have grandchildren.

I can think of being in France when DS1 was 4 and DS2 was 2. Food was an issue, and they basically ate jambon-frites and pizza. I'm not a big fan of most children's food, but kids' meals in France were not great (I was after small portions and small price rather than beige). The other thing was lack of high chairs. We had telephone directories in a particular place in Cannes. So in some areas, we are even more kid and parent friendly.

And comparing anywhere with Spain is inappropriate. They are very much the extreme, rather than the benchmark.

I Britain it is typical to send children that age to bed between 7 and 8 so that they can wake up in time for before school sports etc without feeling tired. We used to often take our children out quite late (and never get negative comments) but we have hell to pay the next day so now we have stopped. You must have just found yourselves in a part of the country where the majority of people adhere to traditionally early bedtimes so they equate children being kept up in the evening to children missing out on sleep. It's no different to then judgment that you get from people who come from places where children go to sleep late when you put yours to bed early. A lot of people are just arrogant bastards who think that parenting differently to the way that they do is cruel.

It's not. Our DS 3 regularly eats out with us, but we tend to go for a 7pm table so it doesn't get too late. I also shock horror take an iPad as when he's done colouring/ talking/ eating it buys us some dessert time.
But then I'm the kind of mother who takes her DS to the Maldives. Which is a mumsnet no no apparently. So I'm probably not the best benchmark!

The reason why I don't take my kids out for dinner is because we don't like doing it! I can cook better at home for what we can afford! We are quite relaxed at bedtime and we do socialise with friends and keep the kids up late when they haven't got school/plans the next day although during the week they can still be up until 9 (not home until 8 etc from sports)

I really fancy a curry now.

I remember visiting Munich when ds1 was 2. He'd be the only child in the restaurant in the evening and we'd get filthy looks from some people. It was really uncomfortable.

Well I would inwardly sigh if I came into a restaurant, especially pre-booked and saw small kids. Especially Friday/Saturday nights which I think are for grown-ups who have been working all week to relax and maybe have "date night".

I would insist I was sat far away from you if I stayed. And I would be on pins and needles the whole time, bracing myself for tantrums.

No matter how wellbehaved/quiet you think your kids are, guaranteed they are distracting and irritating to others.

On the other hand, I also hate loud, drunk groups.

I tend to just stay at home to be honest. I'm quite a good cook (luckily) and serve a particularly fabulous Chicken Vindaloo believe it or not.

Christ, Chicken, I always think I don't like children much, but I'm a bit about that post.

It was a curry place, not a murmuring-and-linen-tablecloth 'romantic' joint.

I always have a good curry either before or after coitus!

There's a great place near my flat and they have seen me with several, ah, suitors.

No matter how wellbehaved/quiet you think your kids are, guaranteed they are distracting and irritating to others

I do understand this, but there are a lot of groups of people who could be distracting or irritating to others. groups of drunk people, hen parties for example but nobody says they're not allowed out on weekend nights for fear of disrupting others' 'date nights'.

I have learnt, from last night and this thread however, that there are quite a lot of people that think small children out in the evenings is not the done thing. I have also learnt that you are expected to go to 'child friendly restaurants' although I'm not sure what this means other than they serve a children's menu with fish fingers etc.

This restaurant is in a suburb and in retrospect I expect it's not the kind of place that sees many children out in the evening (rather than city centre places that might have more). Neverthless I maintain that the children we took out with us were not tantrumming, running around or behaving badly so perhaps it was more observation about them being out late, rather than criticism (apart from the 'cruel' comment, that was weird)

Yes, I acknowledged that upthread, that drunk folk can be annoying.

I'd assume that hen parties would stick to hen party type places though if you see what I mean. They aren't allowed in some hotels/restaurants. And they would get chucked out if they were disrupting a place.

You'd end up in the daily mail though if you as a restaurant owner banned/chucked out a screaming baby.

I think the mere presence of children can be annoying though. It changes the atmosphere. Certainly means I feel obliged to watch my language, even if I'm not being loud. And the waiters/waitresses can put on quite a bit of a performance trying to engage with the kids.

The mere presence of children can be annoying

Is there presence annoying at lunch time too or just after 7pm?

The UK is a very adult-centric country, imo.

Given the choice, I'd have a child-free lunch too. But for me lunch is usually pop in, eat, pay, leave type thing. It doesn't usually involve seduction or sweary stories so I'm less fussed about small people lugging in and me getting nasty looks off their DPs.

Fair enough chicken me too tbh but the little blighters won't leave me alone

I would never shoot a look at someone swearing in a restaurant if I chose to take my child there in the evening

That's most unusual for other diners to react like that towards quiet, well behaved children.

What country are your from OP, just out of interest?

And why would you think this was a 'UK problem', rather than just that particular place?