To wonder if feminism fucked us over

[splendidisolation]

Looking around at lots of relationships -

Women got the right to work and make money.

In many cases this seems to mean that they now have the right to pay bills, rents and mortgages as well as doing the lions share of cooking, household chores and childcare whilst feeling under intense pressure to engage in hardcore grooming and be sex goddesses.

In the 60s many women didnt work and let their lady gardens grow free - it was all men really knew or wanted.

Fast forward 50 years and they're expected to have careers and strip it all off.

Im muddling loads of points here but does anyone see what I mean?

My DP is pretty good but I still pull more weight than him. The other evening I got home late and started to get up to make dinner. He was like "dont bother yourself making dinner, lets just make sandwiches".

Sandwiches? Bother? I mean, I appreciate the gesture mate but its like...why not just make fucking dinner yourself?

Sorry for this rambling, ranting and general mish mash of thoughts.

Feel free to muse!

You are assuming feminism has reached its goals. I would say feminism still has a long way to go.

Good point grasspigeon. Men do have a huge influence, which is probable why for a lot of women, nothing is improving.

I think, certainly in Britain, can't speak for other countries, that there are a lot of very deeply entrenched ideas about how a family should work as a unit and I think it's going to take an awful lot to change that.

I'm not sure a lot of men want it to change tbh and I'm not sure most woman can do much to force change if men don't want it.

Is it bad that my son cooks for me when I get back from work and he is only 6?

Op I agree.

I have chosen my own path, don't really care if is modern or feminist.

I jacked in my career to SAH with our kids, supported my OH to succeed in his career and care for our home.

It has worked out well for us.

OP suggest you get yourself a copy of "Wifework" to read

This may be naive of me, but after living with a man for a few years and observing the fact that you do all of the / the lions share of the domestic stuff, is it not pretty obvious that he's the type of man that thinks it's your job? I often wonder if all of these rubbish men are exceptionally skilled dissemblers.

I look at it the other way, I go to work mainly cause I don't know how to cook at all. I wish I could cook sometimes, but I just can't be arsed to learn. Eating is fun, cooking is boring.

We were sold "having it all".

We've ended up "doing it all" instead.

The rise of women in education and commerce has not resulted equally in the rise of men in domestic and childcare tasks.

In the main, men gave carried on exactly as always. It's still women who carry the domestic as well as financial burden. Men don't carry the domestic burden in the same way. (In the main).

It is not feminism's fault it is just bad partners. Marriage has always been about working together on the same team whether that be with the breadwinner model or anything else.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a man wanting a woman who stays at home, cook, clean and look after the kids because women are free to turn down that arrangement if it doesn't suit them. But if that is what he wants, he must have the means to fund that.

What I can't stand is men who are selective feminists. They want women to do everything around the house but then are all for equality when it comes to earning money. "Well you wanted equality" grrrr.

Maybe the answer is for women not to tie themselves to men by setting up homes with them.

Have children, have a career but don't expect anything from men, then women won't be disappointed when they get nothing from them.

Some of us want to work though. I can't ro anything wifely at all. I am just not that kind of person. I am not suited to that type of role and I wouldn't want to go back to the old days.

I think women, individually and en masse, need to turn round and say to men: if you want a family life, you contribute your fair share to it. If you want sex, you behave nicely in bed. If you want a partnership, then you treat me as an equal: otherwise, fuck off.

The difference is, thanks to women's lib we can do this now without making ourselves homeless and destitute, or having our kids taken off us by law.

Feminism has given us the wherewithal, it's up to all of us to finish the job.

Nope. Feminism has meant I can vote, that I can own my own property and money. That it is not legal for a man to attack me. That I have a legal right to make my own choices.
It also has meant that I got to marry a feminist who does his fair share household wise, who thinks I'm amazing without expecting a porn star in looks or attitude. With the result that we both feel appreciated and make effort.
I think a lot of men have been very slow in realising they don't get to shirk pulling their weight - normally assisted by a parent or partner at some stage who thinks it's normal for a woman to work twice as hard balancing everything than a man without acknowledgement.
I do think we're in a crappy phase of it at the moment as so many people equate feminism as either not needed or something that only clichéd harridans care about.

In Lean In Cheryl Sandberg (sp?) talks at length about finding an equal partner, as in a partner who treats you as an equal. It's bloody important.

but we were sold 'having it all' by a patriarchal/capitalist society and told that we equality - you can't have equality in an unequal society - you can only have the same shit men have with added misogyny

so that's not feminism

Feminism means that I have a good job and I was able to kick exH out when he became violent.
I don't need him to support me or DS.

So, feminism: yay!

M&S meal deals that's what I make dh. He makes me all sorts home cooked from scratched. Who cares how you made it?

In the 1960 it was still legal for a husband to rape his wife - in fact there was no such thing as marital rape according to law.

In the 1960s women were barred from working as civil servants in Foriegn Service once they married.

Only in 1967 was the Abortion Act passed. The contraceptive pill was new and initially only tended to be prescribed to married women.

As pps have said, the work of feminism isn't done yet. Feminists aren't the ones insisting that men be allowed to opt out of family work.

We now have the option to reverse roles anyway

Capitalism is to blame. You've only got to look on here to see the vitriol poured on SAHM's and the insistence that work inside the home is 'nothing' So it's then seen as nothing and becomes invisible work done by women who work FT too. We need to recognise that not all valuable worthwhile work is paid work.

you can't have equality in an unequal society

Exactly.

Which is why I have little interest in being a faux man in order to succeed in the corporate world.

"When I said 'I do', I didn't realise I had to do everything!"

rape in marriage was not illegal until 1991

"I am sure that the romans trimmed their pubes actually"

They completely removed their pubic hair, as did a lot of Cultures were Women had a level of sexual freedom.

It was Queen Victoria who put an end to that in the UK. Whenever there was female sexual repression, there were full bushes.

It's not feminism that has fucked us over, it's men. We are not done with the need for feminism.