To wonder if feminism fucked us over

[splendidisolation]

Looking around at lots of relationships -

Women got the right to work and make money.

In many cases this seems to mean that they now have the right to pay bills, rents and mortgages as well as doing the lions share of cooking, household chores and childcare whilst feeling under intense pressure to engage in hardcore grooming and be sex goddesses.

In the 60s many women didnt work and let their lady gardens grow free - it was all men really knew or wanted.

Fast forward 50 years and they're expected to have careers and strip it all off.

Im muddling loads of points here but does anyone see what I mean?

My DP is pretty good but I still pull more weight than him. The other evening I got home late and started to get up to make dinner. He was like "dont bother yourself making dinner, lets just make sandwiches".

Sandwiches? Bother? I mean, I appreciate the gesture mate but its like...why not just make fucking dinner yourself?

Sorry for this rambling, ranting and general mish mash of thoughts.

Feel free to muse!

Yes, sprry for the inflammatory title, of course feminism isna good thing.

Working and paying our way doesn't bother me.

Its that many men still havent been expected to step up to "wifework".

Regarding grooming, can someone tell me if im remembering right or twisting things: I feel like in the nineties and early noughties the average woman on the street was much less styled and groomed. Like they wore makeup and put some thought into their clothes alright, but im pretty sure i remember less hyper styled hair, less tan, less nails and even less heels.

Im not judging that, but i do feel like today because of the internet, phones everywhere etc etc we are exposed to shit loads more advertising and possibly more pressure as a result. Thoughts?

Its easier for men to get away with doing nothing.
My DP does share housework BUT i think if our house was a shithole people would assume I was lazy and disgusting and think he just had to live here. Same with when I go out, my DP happily looks after our DD and I'm considered a bad mother for going out but if my DP goes out it's normal and he needs it for his sanity etc? He's also an incredible father just for being around ?

No, it's the lazy sexist husbands fucking women over, not feminism.

@AssassinatedBeauty
"Only half of the job has been done (if that), in that restrictions on women have mostly been lifted in the uk, but men (generally) have not made any changes to their expectations and most don't want to."

Spot on

I know what you mean, but no it isn't the fault of feminism as such. Capitalism, possibly, the patriarchy, certainly.

No value is placed on domestic labour or childcare - traditional "wifework". Have you read the Mental Load comic / article in The Guardian?

There are so may societal expectations and these are placed on women and girls from birth. Girls are raised to be compliant, likeable, easy to please. Boys are full of beans, leaders, strong. Harmful for both sexes and suggest feminism is just getting started. It will take generations of work to undo millenia of patriarchal thinking on a societal level. FFS marital rape was legal in my lifetime!

My husband is my equal, progressive and a hands-on father and husband. He is also capable of writing and visits to the post office. Why, then, is it me who "looks bad" when his family don't get Christmas cards?! Why do school insist on phoning me when our child is sick despite having documented my working days wih instructions to call DH? (I am a lone worker and can't leave mid-shift) Why is he "good" for "babysitting" when I go out? As I say, it's society and socialisation that's largely to blame.

All this just shows feminism is as vital now as ever.

How is the fashion for women being hyper groomed feminism's fault?
Give it 10 years and the fashion will have swung the other way. And if you take a walk down the average high street you will see that most women aren't hyper groomed anyway.

The house prices would be based on one income

Agree OP.

Feminism is done, that's about women having the right to do everything a man does.

Now we need masculism, for men to have the right to do everything a woman does.

Otherwise women are just getting lumped with all the work both inside and outside of the home.

The really shitty reality doesn't hit until a woman reaches (or attempts to reach) a certain point of seniority in her career. It also hits when she lives with her partner or becomes pregnant. At all of those points I got another dose of reality that it's bullshit, society is not fucking sorted out, it's so unequal and unfair it makes my eyes bleed. In my early 20s I just didn't see it. Now I do. It fucking sucks arse.

Why am I writing a list of chores for DH to do? Why won't he just fucking do them? Why does he walk past his own empty food packets and not put them in the fucking bin? Why does he never wipe down a worktop? It's beyond exhausting.

so women having to do everything, women shaving their pubes, - this is feminism's fault?

nope - that would be good old fashioned patriachy saying ' great have wage equality (hahaha) and that shit - we'll find new ways to make your life difficult' - helped by men making the demands and do fuck all to help (some men)

It's not feminism because we don't live in a feminist society do we - we live in one where the odds are still firmly stacked against us - which is why we need feminism!

I think woth my DP personally, our issue is we (imagine the worlds biggest air quotes here) "dont live together" - we live at mine. Hence everything is my problem

I think you’re right. Often think this myself but I don’t think it’s because men aren’t pulling their weight (most do their best to juggle as we do), it’s because women need to work now because the cost of living is so high. Feminism aimed to allow women to work but it’s ended up with most having to. It’s not just feminism though, it’s also economic forces and technologies that allow us to multi task and do things quicker. We are living life at a million miles an hour. Both partners working, plus having the house and kids to look after means everyone is stressed, tired and far from content. Women of our generation have a huge expectation on them, to forge a successful career, as well as keep things together at home. Kids lose out too...parenting is rarely treated as it should be, a job in itself. It can’t be with both parents working outside the home. We count ourselves lucky if we manage to get them fed, in clean clothes and out of trouble.

Think that yes, definitely, there is more pressure on women (especially young women) now, to conform to a certain image. I think this is more down to capitalism working out ways to sell us things, based on inventing problems. For instance, if you tell women that their fannies stink, you can then flog them scented sanpro to 'help'. (Not that this is new, really - the toilet cleaner Lysol used to be sold to use as a douche for 'feminine hygiene' (covert birth control). It caused inflammation, burning, and even death. www.motherjones.com/media/2012/03/when-women-used-lysol-birth-control/).

feminism isn't done at all - globally or locally - 2 women a WEEK still die at the hands of their partners, rape goes unprosecuted, oppression is everywhere

feminism isn't about equality

Poor women tended to work. They may have had more menial or physically demanding jobs, but they worked nonetheless. My nan worked from the day she left school at 13 to the age of 70. My great aunt lived to 95 and she worked all her life too. Both were married and mothers.

Middle class women may have worked until marriage, but in the early part of the 20th century they would have had domestic help in the house - feminism has allowed women to stay in the workplace after marriage and opened up more doors for working class women to have higher status in the workplace.

I also know what you mean OP, it's kind of an unfortunate side effect of feminism and one that we can probably blame capitalist society for...

I think it totally sucks for families that two full time incomes are generally necessary to support a family.

Ideal world: you'd need just one income and one parent could stay at home and care for children, housework etc, and that person would not have to be the woman, both parents would get at least 12 months of paid maternity/paternity leave so that the "burden" of childcare wouldn't automatically fall with the one who has given birth and is potentially breastfeeding.

@stopfuckingshoutingatme I seem to recall the first cities were around 9-10,000 years ago. Modern humans have been around for 200,000 years or so.

Yes, a lot of people here saying its capitalism not feminisms fault. Agreed. I did warn the OP was a massive jumble mish mash.

But its interesting, how did capitalism work to engineer this situation?

Let me tell you about my pre feminism nan

Her father died leaving her older brother responsible for her financially, she was therefore married at 16 with very little choice, no contraception, had to do all the washing, cooking, cleaning, worked in a factory but on less money than a man doing the same job, had 9 pregnancies as she couldn't say no to sex (rape not existing within marriage) and was a victim of domestic violence. The main thing keeping her in that situation was financial dependancy and social pressure about divorce. She had only been educated up to the age of 11 because it's pointless educating women which was another thing keeping her in her place.

capitalism needs inequality to function

I honestly don't think it's feminism, It's women. DH is a workaholic. He does nothing at home. I do the bits I like and the rest is subcontracted out. I do not do housework. I had 8 years off work looking after the DC principally because I had earnt enough money and invested enough in property before I even met DH. I went back to work in 2003 and have a professional managerial role. DH is just nearing the top of the drive. He's winding down . Winner's nearly ready.

My grandmother and mother didn't clean. They were not drudges and both worked. Thankfully I wasn't brought up to clean.

I don't think it's really as black and white as all women having to do the lions share.

Feminism has done a huge amount to improve some women's lives and given them so much more in the way of education and opportunity. Yes, it's done a great deal for some women, but there are still a great many women for whom equality and feminism has had no impact.

The educated, professional woman cutting her way through her profession with or without an equal partner in her life can have it all. She can have her career, a nanny, a cleaner etc.

However, the woman who has to go out to work full time in order to pay the rent or mortgage, bring up the children and do all the housework with a waste of space man in her life will probably not see how feminism has benefited her; and in truth, it hasn't. In many ways her life if much harder than her grandmother's who stayed at home, brought up the children and ran the house.

Agree, we still need a better deal for some women but not sure feminism, as such, is what is going to help them.

My DH was raised by a feminist and I don't have any problems getting him to do his share of the housework. Why are you blaming feminism for lazy men?

Feminism isn't making you be super groomed either. Groom, don't groom. Who cares. I keep the borders tidy so I don't scare people at the pool. DH doesn't care but even if he did he would have to get over it. But he's a feminist so he respects my right to groom or not as I like.

@OhTheRoses

Now theres a thought. I am actually really dirty. DP is very clean in his own place, so initially I cleaned up mine. Now i dont bother. I dont care whether its clean or not, so if you do, you can do it. I still feel pressure re cooking and laundry though.

I blame their mothers - my own mother babied the shit out of my brother whilst holding me and my sister to task for everything. If i ever have a son ill try to change that.

I agree OP we have a long way to go. Men must be rubbing their hands together.It is also incredible how the porn/sex industry has escalated at an alarming rate too. Men now get women doing most jobs and have easy access to porn/ live sex whenever they want on top of having a wife to satisfy them too.

I agree. Now we have the right to go out to work and earn the money and do all the housework and childcare too. Great. A lot of housewives in the 1950's and 60's had the life of riley. A bit of housework children at school all day and the rest of the time to themselves. Sounds better than the poor frazzled women trying to juggle everything to make ends meet these days.