Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

I love the way his current wave of popularity is based around the fact he didn't loose an election as badly as everyone expected him to. Talk about setting the bar low!

Labour say they are on the verge of power. Not sure how they expect to achieve that given the next election is scheduled in 2022. A coup maybe?

It's easy to impress a hall full of delegates who voted you into the job in the first place. Convincing the rest of the electorate is a different matter. The student vote will not win him an election on its own plus, most of those students will be working (or unemployed) by 2022, Then let's see who they vote for.

Personally I think he saw his peak at the last election getting the protest vote from UKIP and the hatchet job the Tories made of their campaign. Next election he will be back to being a political leper.

The BBC as usual are wetting their pants over the whole thing and are taking the mood in the conference hall as a microcosm of the mood of the nation ergo he's the PM in waiting. Naive tits.

I think there is a huge difference between detesting the actions of the Israeli government and detesting all Jewish people, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Right? And the problem is that with so many people conflating the two, I tend to disregard "news" of intelligent "normal" people being anti-semitic as reactionary hyperbole.

Tories like the OP would appear to be shitting themselves in fear of losing the next GE so try to stir up some shit. Tedious.

I think it is a possibility he will be PM. I wouldn't underestimate the PR and organisational skills of momentum. However I don't think that conference will have done him any favours with the general population. Some in the Labour party have short memories. I wonder what Kinnock makes of it all.

I've not posted on MN for a while before today. Do you suppose if I started a tread on Plastic Hip Joints it would be met with "Whatabout Trump and the "Alt Right""?

What does Gad Saad call it? "six degrees of Noam Chomsky thinking"

That's a lot of Shit Pannn

Delurking and greetings from the other side of the pond.

The intersection of the hard left and antisemitism here in the States is mostly found on college and university campuses, not in mainstream politics. There's also some antipathy towards non protestant Christian denominations (Pentecostals and the like) who have conservative social views.

It is a rather curious blind spot that racial and religious stereotyping and bias are bad, unless it's certain groups, then it's okay. I get the Economist magazine and was surprised to learn that Labor seems poised to take over. Your PM, with a comfortable majority, has a lot more power than the American president, so I am concerned that there's no check on this type of thing.

Just a bit about me - I'm a mum, with two teenagers, an older son and younger daughter and am something of an anglophile. DH used to live and work in London and I've been over twice. I loved the city and people. We live in the NYC suburbs and I garden a bit.

It's nice to meet you all.

Despite not liking Corbyn much I'd be tempted - this cons govt is abysmal and fucking us all over. Plus brexit.

There has long been a contingent in the Labour Party who are obsessed with Israel. People watch the news about Burma, trump, Yemen, Saudi, Syria, brexit, etc, etc, and then they look at some sections of Labour happily ranting about their Zios again and they just think, uh huh...

Dunno, Crackednips.

Is ""six degrees of Noam Chomsky thinking" like when a new poster starts a thread being terribly, terribly concerned about anti-Semitism, but actually seems more interested in the hammer & sickle and property rights in Kensington?

You too MissConductUS.

I think broadly that's true here also. I'm curious to know what certain groups are you referring to?

Hello misconduct!

Labour taking over is not a tribute to them as such, I feel, it's despair at the conservatives.

What alltouchedout said. In spades.

The situation is nuanced.

(I have to question the intelligence of someone using the example of holocaust denial in a discussion of free speech. It happened. It's factual.)

Yet Mr Corbyn has backed Hama repeatedly. Can you explain why a 'man of peace; would do that?

In fairness to Jeremy, he's really not very bright.

Why would a slight segue upset you so much?

Careful HostaFireAndIce... Hampstead property rights is your agenda clearly, you're fooling no one....

Crackednips, the certain groups I was referring to were Jews who openly support Israel and the conservative and/or non mainstream protestant denominations.

Sorry if that wasn't clear.

At a talk hosted at a secret location by Critical Sisters, one of the speakers was Maryam Namazie.

She's describes herself as a former Muslim, women's rights campaigner and is an atheist.

There are few, if any religions where women are considered equal to men and women's rights are often suppressed in the name of religion.

The rise of Islam and the rise in more extreme or conservative forms of all religions grieves her greatly.

She described how Palestinian refugees gained the sympathy of the Left (not unnaturally) and extremist Muslim activists have used that sympathy as the 'thin edge of a religious wedge' to gain a foothold in British politics.

She described a demonstration where she and other atheist protesters were faced with young British women standing beside Muslim extremists shouting "Alluha Akbar!"

They have been led blindly down a route where women's rights are secondary to the rights of the men who lead a lot of these campaigns.

I do not trust Labour or Liberal Democrats as a result of this.

"The Holocaust; yes or no" is not up for debate.

It fucking happened. Denying the Holocaust should be a crime. It's not up for a fucking debate.

Other attempts at exterminating entire peoples should also be spoken of Armenians, Rohinga Muslims, Tamils, Aborigines etc.

It is a rather curious blind spot that racial and religious stereotyping and bias are bad, unless it's certain groups, then it's okay

I couldn't have put it better myself

I'm another who can see fault in all groups involved in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but unlike Corbyn I appreciate that nothing will ever be resolved by so clearly favouring only one of them - especially when that group are constitutionally committed to mass slaughter

Puzzled - it's because you're not a marxist. If you were, you would understand that racism can only be against "oppressed people", so if you take the view (as most of them do) that Jews are evil capitalists who run the world, then for Hamas to say that all Jews must be slaughtered, or for Raed Salah to say that Jews bake gentile children into their matzah, is absolutely fine, whereas anything the "settler colonial state" does is wrong.

MissConductUS I see...

Even more the case in this country where Jews are electorally quite insignificant .

sam indeed you're right and I'm not a marxist, or hopefully any other kind of extremist either; I've a variety of faults but at least that's not among them

Which is perhaps why JC and his puppetmasters in Momentum terrify me ...

Lol.
The tories are trying to have a 'transition period' so that they can avoid negotiating and try to shout at labour when they do. T

The government think Labour are taking power soon.

It's all about trying to avoid negotiating and being accountable.

I do not trust Labour or Liberal Democrats as a result of this

So you don't trust Labour or the Lib Dems because of an anecdote where some women shouted Alluha Akbar and you're convinced that conservative religious people are part of the left? Are you in denial about the vast swathes of prejudice, bigotry and oppression that comes from the right? I mean the Tories have literally been opressing the working class, women and minorities for as long as they've existed, but one anecdote and you don't trust Labour?

I am so happy to seeing the rise of an opposition party who recognise the injustices done under the name of austerity and who want to challenge it, who actually seem to recognise and give something of a shit about our housing, health services and education. I am very happy to have renationalisation on the agenda. I have a tiny bit of hope in the future of British politics now where previously I had none.

And I don't judge people for singing/chanting the name of a political leader, I am just delighted that people are that involved/passionate in anything relating to politics. It's a good thing when people are energized and enthusiastic about politics, even if you don't agree with them and would vote a different way, it's still far better than the disinterested apathy that we have had in this country for so long.