Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

It's deeply unpleasant, and anyone who sees the Labour Party as "the good guys", as PP have mentioned on this thread, is either wilfully ignorant or astonishingly foolish. The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't, and I find it astonishing that it's the Tories (who I didn't vote for, not that it should matter) are considered the "Nasty Party" whilst this current strain of virulent anti-Semitism, inter alia, is minimised by the powers that be. People like Livingstone and Shah are a disgrace.

That said, Muslim anti-Semitism also exists, and in the UK as well: but that's a different discussion.

Jeremy Corbyn didn't attend the Labour Friends of Israel meeting at the party conference. He is the first leader in living memory to not attend this meeting. The LFI support a two state solution and want to see a Palestinian State established which would exist alongside with Israel. By not attending the meeting Corbyn has shown he doesn't care about Jewish Labour Party members or the wider Jewish community. The extreme left wing hate Israel and won't even support a moderate group like LFI. Corbyn talks about stopping anti Semitism but his actions don't match with his words.

The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't,

Crap.

Those KKK types, the EDL and a host of neo-nazi skinhead groups in mainland Europe are ultra violent right-wing scumbags.

YADNBU. We need a new, actually Socialist Labour party imho.

BoysofMelody -- Invalid comparison.Those equally nasty groups are not mainstream political parties.

Cobyn's Labour are The Official Opposition to the Govt of the UK, hard to believe but this vileness is where we are.

And they dislike strong. vocal women so much that the BBC's political editor needs a bodyguard.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/laura-kuenssberg-labour-party-conference-bodyguards-bbc-politics-editor-online-abuse-social-media-a7965301.html

Want2beSupermum I don't know any Muslims who hate Jews. That's absurd.

I was just looking for an idiot's guide to the genesis of it all. It's upsetting.

You can hate the state of Israel without being an anti Semite. I know Jews who hate Israel. I don't know anyone of sound mind who likes the state of Israel.

Wanttobesupermum - the Romans were in charge, not the Jews. Herod was a client ruler placed by the Romans.

I think it's a twofold thing: 1) hoping to gather support in the Muslim community. Certainly the majority of Muslims don't have a problem with Jews but Trevor Phillips reported found that 26% think Jews are responsible for most wars in the world (ffs) & over a third think Jews have too much influence in Britain. Labour may be counting on people with strong views being more likely to vote. 2) Anti-Colonialism is the go-to for people trying to prove their right-on credits. Even though the majority of Jewish Israelis have ancestry from the region (either because they have great-grandparents etc who were from the immediate area or they are from or have parents, grandparents etc who were some of 800,000+ Jews forcibly expelled from the surrounding Arab countries in the years following 1958), most people have the idea that Jewish Israelis are all from Northern Europe. Nvm that no-one is up in arms about Canadians/Americans/Aussies living on what is often unceded territory. So protest Israel shows you're a defender of the non-whites, easy-peasy. The fact that that neatly slides into anti-semitism & so on some level seems a comfortable go-to makes it easier for many people. Be Ken Livingstone, Naz Shah, the people heckling Louise Smeeth - ignore what history tells us about where this always go.

It's sickening. I have always voted Labour (& the equivalent in Canada). I would struggle to support a Labour candidate at the moment.

I studied Politics at Uni many years ago and I clearly remember one lecture where the Prof listed the similarities between the far Right and far Left and said that Fascism was basically Communism without the hypocrisy
I'm beginning to think that Labour is The Conservatives WITH the Hypocrisy!!

Your initial premise is riddled with issues. Are there anti semites in Labour? Certainly. Are there in the Tories? Just as certainly.
Trying to set up Labour as somehow more so, absolute bullshit and without basis.

The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't

Oh, such rubbish. You've never heard of the EDL?Jobbik? KKK? Golden Dawn? Never heard about what Russian far right groups do to migrants?

The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't

Anyone who believes that kind of horseshit has a pretty sick agenda.

Concise, I am of sound mind and support the state of Israel. It's that kind of blanket statement that make it easy for people to delegitimise an entire nation of people. I find it astounding you'd make the lazy and shocking assumption that to support Israel is to be mentally ill.

When looking at whether or not protesting about Israel is anti-Semitic or not I look at the 3 d's - 1) demonization: comparing Israel to Nazi Germany and (Hamas-controlled) Gaza to a concentration camp 2) disproportionate focus/double standards - why has Israel been censured by the UN more than any other country? More than Iraq who gassed their own people? More than Liberia? More than states that officially oppress women? More than China, Burma, Syria, Libya? 3) Deligitimization - Israel is the only country whose right to exist is called into question. As I said below, no-one's questioning Canada's right to exist, but much of what we live on is unceded territory.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_Test_of_Antisemitism

Hard right and hard left are exactly the same.

Racist and mysogynistic and violent. They are the opposite of democracy.

The chanting is very very stupid! Learnt fuck all from Kinnocks disastrous Manchester rally.

He lost the election ffs and the working class vote.

Want2bSupermum: "King Herold was Jewish and wanted Jesus dead.... for a reason. Jesus was here from God to save us from ourselves. The Jews were in charge until Jesus showed up."

Well, that's an an interesting and, er, original take on things.

Conciseandnice - when you say you know people who hate Israel, do you mean they hate the current government/the settlements, or the very existence of the state itself? Those are two quite different things.

Anyway, if all the Labour party could be accused of was legitimate criticism of the Israeli government, that would be fair enough, but the problem appears to go further than that.

The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't

I completely agree.

The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't,

This is clearly rubbish and it's not a game of "we're bigger idiots than you are" anyway.

Well the question took me by surprise and it's a quick summary.

Basically the issues between religions is as old as religions. These generally are not issues when religion doesn't come first in ones life. I'm Jewish but consider myself a white Brit. I don't attach a religion to my identity.

I completely agree

Then you are clearly a GF with a sick agenda and blinkers the size of buildings.

Your initial premise is riddled with issues. Are there anti semites in Labour? Certainly. Are there in the Tories? Just as certainly.
Trying to set up Labour as somehow more so, absolute bullshit and without basis.

And, like night follows day , here come the Whatabouters/Corbynites.

No basis?

Yes, no basis.
Only a fool would categorise Labour as any more anti semitic that the Tories.

The hard Left globally is violent in a way that the Right - hard or otherwise - isn't

This kind of stupid statement really devalues the rest of your argument. What about that guy who killed an anti-fascist protestor with his car a couple of weeks ago? Was he doing that in a non-violent way? And that's one very recent example. There are hundreds more.