Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

And as for Momentum being described as 'militants who have infiltrated the party', I think they are a bloody marvelous movement of mainly young, grass roots activists who have got off their arses and organised themselves and are having an impact. As far as I know they are not associated with violence or discrimination, and there is nothing stopping Tory/Green/Lib Dem leaning young people from doing exactly the same thing within their parties if they want to. Just because they are vocal and effective does not mean we should instinctively try to shut them down, especially when so much of what they say seems to resonate with others.

A lot are not interested in politics though, or not politics that make a difference to peoples lives. They are interested in him and that's a different thing. Chanting someones name does not show an interest in real politics. Real politics is often boring often tedious but it helps to change peopkes lives.

They are interested in him

Have you wondered why? He is the first opposition leader in a very long time who actually OPPOSED the Tories!

As far as I know (Momentum) are not associated with violence or discrimination

Errrr ...

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/19/momentum-drops-pledge-to-non-violence-from-code-of-ethics

No he's not. Labour held power for over a decade. Winning elections that is what counts not calling the Tories names. And maybe he will win but he hasn't yet. I don't need to wonder why they are interested in him. I know why. I have been involved in the Labour party all my life.

I found this interview with Ken Livingstone interesting, not least because he kept saying "we have to solve the Palestinian problem". Do British politicians also have to "solve" the rights of Tibetans, of Aborigines in Australia, ethnic Germans in Poland, etc? It sounded quite patronizing to me, that white westerners need to trot to the rescue? But don't think it's their business to "solve" other nations problems in this way?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=BFxlPYMcLHc

Forgot the link!

Indeed. Its fascinating how people like Livingstone and Labour's new found friends never seem to obsess over the problem of China's occupation of Tibet? Or Morocco's occupation of Western Sahara? Iran's brutal persecution of the Bahaii & all other minority people.

Why the obsession with a government comprised primarily of [ahem] Jews?

Slarti.

No. None of the parties can be trusted.

But the fact that he has grabbed their attention and held their interest, enough so that they are out there leafleting and doorsteppin and turning up for meetings, is brilliant I think. they may have dropped the word non violent from their code of ethics but you can be sure if they actually were a group of violent thugs who went round physically assaulting people we would hear all about it very quickly and their popularity would dive bomb overnight. The fact is they are fighting with words and they are doing a very effective job. Good luck to them I say. If there is a contingent of the Labour Party who really feel the party should become less socialist then there is nothing to stop them organizing their own equivalent of momentum. In fact I think that might already be happening, but the public are not engaging with it because there is an actual appetite for socialism at the moment, which I am very happy about.

I have been involved in the Labour party all my life.

Riiiight

I don't recognise Labour anymore- they really should rebrand themselves as the Socialist Labour Party.

What concerns me is the ignorance amongst labour younger voters with regards to the hard left, as pps have discussed, they think that to be extreme left is cool and edgy and makes them the good guys - I just can't understand how they got to that idea. The dogged determination to refuse to acknowledge that the hard left is just as appalling as the hard right.

Corbyn strikes me as dangerous mainly because of this 'man of principle' ticket, its not about him having principles it's about not allowing dissent, for example he won't engage in discussions about topics he knows will show his more unpopular views because he will not contemplate a compromise. A leader you cannot question or criticise is a dictator

I don't want to live in a dictatorship that's for sure!

I thought historically Labour was a left wing socialist party, are they not just doing what it said they did on the tin all along?? There's nothing they are saying which I think is particularly 'hard' left, it's just that in this country we have been used to a very non socialist 'soft' left and now the pendulum is swinging back a bit.

Bingo . Always on these threads when those of us on the centre left discuss our concerns about corbyn we are accused of being Tories in disguise. So original

because there is an actual appetite for socialism at the moment

No, there really isn't.

And can you really not understand how people who think austerity is wrong and is hitting the most vulnerable, and are opposed to private industries creaming profit from public services, and who would like to see some redistribution of wealth so that we don't have some people homeless and/or using food banks whilst the power and wealth of the country is concentrated in the hands of the view came to the idea that a touch of socialism might be helpful and that they are the good guys??

And it's always there under the surface isn't it. If you disagree you can't possibly be a Labour voter. It would be fascinating if it wasn't just a bit scary.

Well only in terms of the significant increase in members of the Labour Party and Labour activists and Labour voters since they started speaking about more socialist policies and launched their most socialist manifesto for decades. That could be seen as there being more of an appetite for socialism than there was previously.

There's nothing they are saying which I think is particularly 'hard' left, it's just that in this country we have been used to a very non socialist 'soft' left and now the pendulum is swinging back a bit

Absolutely!

The Tory ideology is so awful. It is morally bankrupt and just plain doesn't work.

Why should Britain not help sort out the Israeli oppression meted out on a nation kicked out of their own homes and forced to live in prison camps?

Lizzie I think Britain should help to try and improve the situation in Israel/Palestine because they had a hand in creating it, surely that's why it's not the same as the China/Tibet situation etc? Although I wouldn't put Australian Aboriginal people in your list of problems that have nothing to do with Britain

There is a general, or has been a general liberalism consensus amongst the political parties for some time. I agree.

But I'd say re nationalisation of utilities, confiscation of private property etc is pretty far left. I really don't see a 'far right' political party, not as far right as say Corbyn and Co are far left.

Unfortunately the young who seem so keen on Corbyn, have never 'enjoyed' the fruits of Socialism, rubbish piling up in the streets, power cuts, the dead left unburried, transportation paralysed, among other loveliness. Maybe it'll have to come to 5 years of that?

Whatthe...
The founding principle of the Labour Party was a Welfare State. Not a Socialist State. One of the key differences of such is the level/amount of control that the government have over the state.

I think that whilst the majority of the public support 'welfare state' the idea of 'socialist state' is downright terrifying!

Lots on the left like to dress up their anti-semitism as criticism of Israel. But the words they use etc show otherwise.

Like other posters, I can't vote Labour when Corbyn is leader, May is bizarre and the Libdems are barely anything. It's shit.

I'm in my mid twenties and my job is full of lefties who think the sun shines out of his arse so I'm surrounded by Corbynistas. Any suggestions he may not be a paragon of virtue and in fact has some very iffy views is tantamount to saying you are a neo nazi. Very weird.

I recently read What's Left by Nick Cohen. More relevant by the day.

But maybe in the current climate in order to save the welfare state they may have to apply some socialist principles. I don't think there was anything in the manifesto about confiscation of private property, but either way force aquisition of property has (I think) happened under all governments when it suits their purposes.
The welfare state is (I believe) under serious and credible threat and divisions within society in terms of power, wealth, health and opportunity are staggering. We can't just keep doing the same old same old if what we want is change.