Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

Bambini, are you really saying that the left are subconsciously Jew haters because they support Palestines right to exist?

Asking as a Jewish leftie.

Shutting down discussion?? It's rich when it is you who says ".. .shouting "bigot" or "phobe" seems to be the bang on trend way of shutting down discussion at the mo". No one else is calling anyone a phobe or bigot.

Chakra

Unfortunately for the Palestinians- they gambled big and lost big - several times. They are in a crap situation but they don't help themselves. They need to stop acting like a stoppy teenager who wants everything but takes little responsibility. Still think a 2 state solution is only viable answer. Both sides need to accept they don't get everything they demand or want. Or Gaza can remain the hell hole it is safe in knowledge that they are downtrodden but in the right against an evil oppressor.

I disagree. There most certainly is antisemitism in the labour party!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/26/new-antisemitism-row-for-labour-over-fringe-speakers-holocaust-remarks-miko-peled

Chakra, do I really have to explain that Phobe and Bigot are comparable terms for being Anti Semite, and their use in current "political" debate?

My point was, that there has been very little real Anti Semitism within the Left

Sadly, there are many members of the jewish community who feel otherwise. Just as I don't presume to negate the experiences of black people or muslims when they talk about overt prejudice, I wouldn't do so to jewish folk either

Would you?

My Beloved, not to minimise, that was a fringe event and is being investigated, which isn't the same as accusing the Labour leadership of being Jew haters, which some folk on thread have done.

Katie Hopkins turned out at the Tory event today in a wedding frock to promote her fringe event about divorce. Do we accuse the Tory leadership of sharing her views?

To reiterate, I am Jewish, (not practicing) and I do recognise Anti Semitism, and I also recognise when folk are using it as a shield.

I clearly don't have any answers to what should be done, but I do think recognising and publicly acknowledging our involvement in creating the mess is a start.

Cheese - go ahead and twist my words. They support Palestine but HATE Israel. There is no middle ground for some of them, no shades of grey or acknowledging some right or wrong on both sides. They damage Palestinians by telling them they are completely in the right, completely the victims of an evil oppressor, encouraging Palestinians to fight on - whilst sitting in the UK watching the X Factor with a cup of tea or arguing the rights and wrongs down the pub with a pint.

do I really have to explain that Phobe and Bigot are comparable terms for being Anti Semite, and their use in current "political" debate?

WHAT! Can you not make a point without resorting to overused and inaccurate descriptors for those who have different POVs to you? Big girls do not resort to shouting phobe when they read something they dont like. Instead say your piece, and agree to disagree.

Bambini, So much "they". That's othering, you know that? You sound a wee bit triggered there...

Chakra, calm your boots and RTFT. No one called anyone a phobe, I was talking about a trend in debating technique.

Again, you seem really, really triggered by this debate.

It is absolutely fine to other muslims nowadays, but cry out anti- semitism at the mention of Israeli occupation. its quite in vogue.

cheese: A fringe event advertised in the official labour party conference programme. Not the same as Katie Hopkins turning up randomly in a wedding dress. So yes, minimising indeed.

To deny antisemitism in the labour party or the left is incredibly blinkered. Ken Livingstone, Naz Shah, the chakrabati whitewash, the bullying of Luciana Berger...and Labour's absolute denial any of this exists.

You can say you are Jewish until you are blue in the face - you do not speak for me or many others.

Gaza can remain the hell hole it is safe in knowledge that they are downtrodden but in the right against an evil oppressor

Well put, Bambambini. I'm afraid that the well-practiced Victimhood is a heady aphrodisiac and always wins. I fear trying for co-existence, and dropping the petulance is not attainable by the Palestinians. It would be seen as weakness. I understand that it's a big deal for them, but there is no other solution.

In cheese language I think Trigger means to participate.

I'm afraid that the well-practiced Victimhood is a heady aphrodisiac and always wins

This has worked very well for Israel for a long time. Just look at the number of Palestinians killed in 2016 and 2017 so far. People are a bit tired of Israel playing victim, whilst being a big bully.

Chakra, wrong again.

MyBeloved, Katie Hopkins was an official fringe event, well according to AMP that is, which is eye rolling. A talk about Divorce/Brexit.

We live in strange times!

I will look more at your evidence that the Labour Party is Anti Semitic. Perhaps I am optimistic in my assessment, I see incidents as examples of isolated crazy loons, rather than wholesale Anti Jewish sentiment.

"Bambini, So much "they". That's othering, you know that? You sound a wee bit triggered there..."

Nice tone which adds shite all to any conversation.

Please do cheese. The names I mentioned in my post above is a good place to start. Brace yourself!

I was LOL, ThatsFunny. Keep up, dear. Cant wait for the next bit of cheese language.

Just as I don't presume to negate the experiences of black people or muslims when they talk about overt prejudice, I wouldn't do so to jewish folk either

So you're saying these claims are not up for debate, they are to be accepted as fact, and that to question them is... what... bigoted?