Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

One of the greatest, (possibly the greatest) terrorist leaders of the 20th century, who walked away from a hugely generous offer of peace in 2000 to start the murderous first intifada. He was addicted to Jihad, violence and lying and he served the Palestinian people very badly indeed (as does Abbas today). May he rot in hell....

Let's have a bit of honesty here. Red Labour is in bed with Political Islam and unfortunately Anti-Semitism goes hand in hand with the relationship

Agree with M4Dad. The current unholy alliance is Marxism with radical Islam.

I saw most of that interview with the founder of Momentum, Jon Lansman. Lansman is a wealthy communist, he is Jewish and anti-Israel. It must be a surreal position to take, but there are rather a lot of his type in politics. Don't forget it was the Jewish intelligentsia in Russia who forced communism on the people by the man-made famine. Main activists were Trotsky (real name Bronstein), Zinoviev (Apfelbaum), Kamienev (Rosenfeld). Modern-day communists believe Stalin was right to destroy the people seeking independence from his rule: in other words, the ends justify the means.

Lansman is studiously ignoring the anti-Semitism within the Labour Party because he reasons it is mostly anti Israel rather than against Jews, and secondly the name of his game is bringing an openly Communist govt to power with the help of the Muslim vote and the young vote. Those votes will boost Labour into power and in return favours will be bestowed in favour of Islam..

The political climate is good because the under 30s are in thrall to being part of some social movement (they think) that will right the wrongs of some individuals being too wealthy - which secretly they want to be and they'd be the first to NOT share their good fortune with anyone.

Remember - Israel is a democratic country. No country in MENA has democracy and no changes on the horizon.

Crackednips has nailed it multiple times! People I know who have visited Israel say it is like Europe but in the desert. Music, free mixing of men & women, laughter, bars, concerts, restaurants, etc. Compare that to the life of any ME country. In some, women are still under the control of the husband or brother, their status is low in any facet of life and their vistas are narrow without much gaiety.

Hamas will never agree to peace with Israel. I read somewhere that all the peace agreements since the 70s that hv either broken or never signed was due entirely to the Palestinian leadership finding some excuse or other. They do not want peace. They do not want Jews in Israel, because they despise them totally. I have worked for an Arab business in London and I can tell you that while in Europe they can keep up a pretence of amiability towards their Jewish counterparts, for example, they fake friendship very well indeed. If I did not know what I knew, I would totally believe that the ME people genuinely liked their Jewish business partners.

The Israelis do not gloat at the death of Palestinians, but I have seen on the news several times Palestinian women rejoicing and dancing in the streets when some Israelis have been wiped out. Their menfolk fire into the air in triumph and even the little kids jump around with happiness. To teach such a reaction, even about your enemy, is immoral.

To this day I still remember the 2004 killing of a pregnant Israeli women and her 4 young daughters, youngest aged 2. Not killed by explosion or shrapnel, but ambushed and shot at close range by Palestinians. She was driving alone with her children. You’ve got to be some kind of stone killer to do that, so full of hate that no peace plan would do, because they are incapable of compromise. Anyone else remember it?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Hatuel_family

Ok, this thread has gone full Trump, complete with Daily Mail articles.

The paranoia against Muslims and hatred oozing from those that cry anti semitism is quite telling.

laughing out loud at the statement about Israel being like Europe because there's Music, free mixing of men & women, laughter, bars, concerts, restaurants, etc

I am sure you get that in China, India, Japan too. Or do you mean 'white'

There is a huge difference between Anti-Semitism, and not being cool with Israel expansionist activity.

Any criticism of Israel is shut down with cries of racism or bigotry.

Lesson leart in the last few posts: you may not be anti-semitic, but you are totally allowed to be an Islamophobe.

One paranoid poster rambles above how they hate us, they hate us, I know what they are thinking, they pretend to be your friends, but they are not, they are so anti-semitic, however Daily Mail are my friend and they are done with the muslims, then they will never ever come for me, oh no not me.

It isn't Fascist to think that perhaps the Palestinians shouldn't have to accept this, because we would prefer white people to live in their houses, and anyway we owe the Jews after WW2.

My dates might be incorrect, but I understand that bit if the Earth was Palestinian and not Israel, from about the 7th century, up until 1947, when WE decided to give half of it away to create a Jewish state.

(At which point, did no one see that wasn't a brilliant idea?)

Anyway, since then the State of Israel has taken by force most of the rest.

This is the problem, but to say so makes me an anti Semite, apparently.

Ps, I am technically Jewish, so am I allowed to criticise or not?

Er cheese, most Jewish Israelis are at least partly from the region (Middle Eastern) and Israel also has many Ethiopian and Indian Jews. It's a weird western idea that Israelis are all 100% white. 800,000+ Jews expelled from Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, and North Africa became refugees and Israel took them in and they added to the long-standing Jewish community indigenous to Israel, and along with Jews of European descent they intermarried and made up the existing Israeli Jewish poplulation we see today (alongside Arab, Druze, and Christian Israeli citizens).

Jews have been the majority in Jerusalem for centuries. In two defensive wars (when the Arabs attacked them) Israel gained land, but this has now been returned.

Also, by no means all Palestinians are muslim ...

Hello, oh I am very aware that it's a weird western idea that Jewish people are white!

Your dates for the creation of Israel are not correct, it hasn't been centuries:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historyoff_Israel

^^ for a basic intro.

My point is, it is ridiculous to react to any criticisms of Israeli Government policy as "anti Semitism" and that we should perhaps understand our role in this clusterfuck, and the impact that has had on the escalated tensions between "Arab" and "western" countries.

AND how shouting "bigot" or "phobe" seems to be the bang on trend way of shutting down discussion at the mo.

I was responding to you saying "white people live in their houses".

Israel gained land, but this has now been returned

Bwwwaaaahhaaaahhaaaa, this is really funny.

Israel has returned the land, yet Palestinians keep asking back for their homes and land pre 1967.

Of course!

800,000+ Jews expelled from Iraq, Egypt, Yemen, Syria, and North Africa

Exactly. Some posters don't know their Modern History.

Lizzie, I was referencing something up thread.

Also, by no means all Palestinians are muslim ...

Yes, Israel adopts an equal opportunities stance on making the lives of ALL palestinians, including the christians, equally shit.

Israel also has many Ethiopian and Indian Jews.

And just look how well it treats them

The plight of Ethiopian jews in Israel

Chakra, back to protest anti-semitism but encourage islamophobia.

I thought this thread was meant to be about antisemitism within the British left? Strange how it always turns round to being about Israel, isn't It?

Antisemitism isn't about Israel, it's about jews. But as jews we
feel a deep connection to Israel generally as it is all we have. There is always a background fear of something terrible happening when you're Jewish; antisemitism, progrroms, persecution for tine immemorial tends to do that to a race.

Antisemitism never went away, but it is being allowed to gain a foothold in mainstream politics in the labour party, which is extremely worrying.

I wasn't talking about the creation of Israel, not sure what you mean? The state was created in 1948. My point was that Jews had a continuous present in the region and often were the majority in Jerusalem
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem

Under the Mandate the Muslim population of Palestine doubled, largely due to immigration from Egypt.

OP, My point was, that there has been very little real Anti Semitism within the Left, I am not saying none, and obviously I deplore the real Anti Semitism.

but there have been a lot of accusations of Anti Semitism as a way of shutting down discussion about Palestine.

I think a lot of left leaning would be revolutionaries hate Israel so much i imagine it possibly affects their feelings towards jews - even if subconsciously.

Lizzie, but it is the creation of the state of Israel, whose government is now being criticised by members of both the labour and conservative parties.
And these criticisms are being shut down as Anti Semitic.

And folk are wading in with horrible Anti Islamic rhetoric.