Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

I don't buy that at all puzzled, whataboutery has been employed to imply people hate Jews in the absence of evidence supporting that accusation: "What about Egypt? You haven't mentioned them (in a thread not about Egypt) so I'm going to state as fact that you support them and only care about criticising Israel."

No, I don't get it, Very.

Where have I ever called for the destruction of Palestinians farms, the settlement building on Palestinian land except destruction of Palestine.?
(Earlier in the thread, I actually said it is shit.)

People would go nuts if I said: All Muslims want to destroy the West, or Americans hate Blacks, or Syrians kill babies, and rightly so.
Generalizations like that are shit. They are for racists idiots.

But you, you have used generalizations constantly. (And wrongly).

Until you can bring yourself to admit, 'Some Israelis', or 'Netanyahu's govt', or 'some right-wing Israelis', then really you come across as far more stupid and racist than the very people you despise.

Its people like you who are a problem.

Histiny, go live the life of a Palestininan on the other side of the apartheid wall for one week. Then come back and tell me about 'Some Israelis', or 'Netanyahu's govt', or 'some right-wing Israelis'.

The Palestinians voted for Hamas, their leaders are millionaires and far away, yet it's Israel's fault.........they spend their money on tunnels and rockets, it could be spent on better defences and infrastructure but hey ho .................

The liberties that Israel enjoys for itself , are what it actively denies the Palestinians.

Obviously Israel is wrong. Their very existence is wrong.

Murdering Bastards.

Wow, I guess that says it all really.

Ho hum.

Walking, are you the poster who said upthread that Israeli Arabs enjoy full rights as Israeli citizens? Did you read the link I posted refuting this?

You posted this earlier:
....for sure but when an entire group of people want you dead and gone, and take great pleasure in telling you so and acting on it frequently, it's going to happen.

I read this with great sadness as this is exactly what happens to Palestinians. Israel mows the lawn with great pleasure. It acts on it frequently. It destroys any little infrastructure leaving Palestinians to start again.

Their very existence is wrong

That's anti-semitic

Obviously Israel is wrong

Agreed

In the mowing of the lawn aka the first 50 days of the bombing in 2014:

Palestinians killed: 2,139

Palestinian children killed: 490

Palestinians wounded: 11,000

Palestinian children wounded: 3,000

Gaza residents displaced: Up to 500,000

Homes destroyed in Gaza: 20,000

Source: UN (taken from The Independent)

Murdering Bastards

Agreed.

Was this the poster complaining about whataboutery On a thread about antisemitism in the left?
Surely not.

VeryInteresting Vile, disgusting, abhorrent etc etc. I dont care about your emotions. The region is in a state of perpetual conflict and Israel has the right to defend itself. These things happen as appalling as they are. Interesting how you dont seem to find Palestinians dancing in the streets and handing out sweeties, at the news of slaughter of Israeli citizens as all of the above? Perhaps if Hamas and the PIJ dint deliberately hide their weapons infrastructure in civilian areas civilian causalities could be avoided as Israel retaliates? But no, of course not. Israel should just take it shouldn't they?

The settlements are NOT illegal under international law. They are legal under the League of Nations mandate rules for Palestine: Jews were given the right to live anywhere in the mandate, except for what became Jordan, which was for Arabs only. The LON powers were transferred to the UN after WW2, and they too declared open settlement for Jews.

Now read the next para carefully -- They (The UN) offered a state to the Arabs, who turned it down because they said they wanted all of the land. That was a breach of international law. Even if the Arabs had established a separate state, Jews wold still have had the right to live there, just as Arabs have the right to live in Israel. Following the '67 war, when Israel occupied the West Bank, UN Resolution 242 carefully noted that Israel did NOT have to leave all the territories. Jews moved there voluntary, which means the settlements are not illegal under the Geneva Convention IV.

Its true in 2016 the UN passed a resolution that declared Israeli settlements illegal. A breach and a contradiction of its previous mandate and btw, UN resolutions never stopped Arab aggression and terrorism against Israel. But I dont suppose you're that interested or concerned about that are you? UN res' 242 made it clear that the Palestinians had to make peace, establish secure borders for Israel, recognise Israel as a sovereign state. The Palestinians have done none of those things, but have rejected generous offers time and time again. So that's the reason the occupation continues. If the Palestinians grew up they could have a prosperous and stable state (with Israeli and international help) in less than a decade. So don't go around blaming the effect instead of the cause. The Palestinian attitude to normalisation and peace-making is vile and abhorrent. The Hamas Charter/Mithaq is also vile and abhorrent have you read it? . The ongoing hatred of Jews is vile and abhorrant also. As well as thoroughly immoral. People recover from some forms of mental illness when they are willing to accept and admit to their own responsibility for their problems instead of blaming everything that ever goes wrong on somebody else. We have all been there as regards taking responsibility for our own actions, but the Palestinians haven't moved to stage 1 in a healing process.

You really don't seem to be aware of, or understand the effects of Palestinian Arab rejectionism. Too obsessed with the Jews perhaps?

Your view that Israeli citizens who watched that bombing, were drooling celebrating and gloating at seeing Arab children being killed, is even further evidence of just how heavily skewed your antisemitism has made you.

I imagine they would have felt part relived, to know those that have been firing at them and launching rockets at them were being dealt with. As well as trepidation that this will probably only lead to even more attacks against themselves, their children etc, just as soon as the Hamas/Hezbollah/PIJ terrorists regroup. Can you imagine living alongside a people who's authorities say they want everything and will either kill the Jews of Israel, drive them into the sea, or force them to flee? Again, I don't suppose you really care to ponder such things do you. Not from the perspective of the Israeli's anyway?

The Jews deserve a country, just as we deserve ours here. Just as the Kurds deserve a nation state. Read a little history and more importantly take a balanced view, you may understand better.

Very you lose any credibility because of your clear racist obsessive biased views and pure hatred. Ie to say that ALL Israelis are murdering bastards is pathetic. You are a major part of the problem and why there will never be peace. Most Israelis want peace and to live a shared existence. Have you ever been to Israel? No. All your opinions are a mixture of what you have read or been told. Spend much time on the internet? 😁😁😂😂😂😂😂

you have used generalizations constantly

This whole thread is a sweeping generalisation of Labour and the left!

That "generalising' you speak of, is going both ways.

Who is that directed at cracked?

Israel is fab, many Israelis are lovely folk. Bibi is a horrendous arse. Folk who have never lived in the rehion and live in the likes of UK can be unthinking hippocrits.

Can't believe some of the rhetoric on this thread, anti-semitism is utterly rampant.

People on both sides of this discussion are, to a degree generalising. It's almost inevitable.

I'm happy to debate any point and you can generalise as much as you wish. I dont see it as a problem myself.

A personal slanging match doesn't interest me in the least.

My point is that anti-semitism is rife.

Feel free to debate away.

The settlements are NOT illegal under international law.

You keep saying this, but that is very much a minority view.

Jews moved there voluntary, which means the settlements are not illegal under the Geneva Convention IV.

That is not how the Geneva Convention IV is generally understood.

I fully respect the fact that there are different perspectives. Generally I go by the fact that from 1947 to 1981 the Arabs have chosen war. Thereafter, there's been terror!

II find it hard to believe that the majority of people who have studied this subject in any depth could believe that the Palestinian Arabs represented by the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah and the PIJ want a homeland where they will mutually respect the Jews?

And lots of terrorism before the 80's as well. Memorably the Munich massacre in 1972 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre
And the hijacking to Entebbe in '76. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Entebbe

The Palestinians voted for Hamas, their leaders are millionaires and far away, yet it's Israel's fault.........

Very true, just as Arafat was a multi-millionaire with bank accounts in France, Switzerland and other places. Tell me - how do you become a rich man with your $ safely tucked away in European banks when you are supposed to be fighting a political battle as a man of the people? For these guys there comes a point when it becomes just showbiz.

A good article by Littlejohn. "Once in the shadows, anti-Semitism is now entrenched at the poisoned heart of the Labour Party"

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4923670/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-anti-Semitism-Labour-Party.html

And this is a very good description by A.N. WILSON of the intolerance we are up against. To my mind, it's fascism whether it comes from the Left, Right or Islam.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4935418/A-N-WILSON-new-dark-age-intolerance.html