Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

I always smile when I'm told Israel is an "Oppressive State" the people who tell me that always seem to forget that the Arab nations that surround Israel have tried to "drive them into the sea" on no less than around 6 different occasions.

Let's have a bit of honesty here. Red Labour is in bed with Political Islam and unfortunately Anti-Semitism goes hand in hand with the relationship.

Could you image in the outrage if the Conservative Party had the same kind reputation for islamophobia? People would be marching in the streets, but it almost seems kind of acceptable to some people if it's the jews and to me that's because of the indoctrination they've had at Uni from Marxists.

Yup. Israel represents the eternal Jew. An outcast among nations in the same way the Jews have been victimised and persecuted for millenia via pogroms, expulsions and finally the holocaust. Only this time the Jew isn't going to shut up and take the crap from the bullies in the playground and fights back much to the shock and dismay of the world. Gentiles hate a strong Israel because they hate seeing strong Jews who they can't push around and persecute like they did for centuries.

*I agree with all of that but I think post WW2 things have changed. The existence now of Israel, as a predominately Jewish state, winds up the left enormously. I think the reason is, they'd like to cradle Jews as victims but Jews don't need them.

I also think the vibrant antisemitism on the left is partly due to the long march of cultural Marxism through our institutions, especially in education. Seeking victims and finding them wherever white people can be said to be the authors of their victim hood. Raise the subject of the attempted genocides, persecutions and massacres of Coptics, Armenian, Yazhidi Christians. The Bahaii people in Iran etc etc, all committed by the muslim theocracies, and they'll look at you blankly. Better still they'll just call you "islamophobic".

They believe its right & virtuous to fight for a Palestinian state, when he people that would be running it would be (exactly as they are now in W Bank, Gaza, Syria, Iran etc) beheaded apostates, throwing gay people form tall buildings or stoning "adulterous" women to death. I could go on and on. That's why a large majority of Israel Arabs boast that they prefer living in Israel than in any Arab state.

Leftists like to hide behind the shield of "Its not antisemitic to criticise Israel". Yet should anyone try defending UKIP in the same way, "It's not racist to discuss Immigration" and you'll be met with the same allegation of "Racist" from them -- and allegation is proof sufficient, there is no defence to it. [See up thread]

Bottom line is: Mention 'Jew' and 'Israel' is not far behind. Most British Jews have nothing to do with Israel. However for many on the Left, anti-Zionism is merely code for Antisemitism. Condemning what Israel does to the Palestinians? Good for you! How brave! So when did the left ever condemn the Palestinians? They commit atrocity after atrocity and get no censure whatsoever.

I'll believe that line when I see the likes of Corbyn telling Hamas to stop their evil. Think that's likely???*

Applause!

That's because of the indoctrination they've had at Uni from Marxists

Our universities corrupt the youth? Gives them high falutin ideas?

Makeourfuture - This second option requires the two parties to communicate.

Tell that to Corbyn. He only wants to communicate with the Palestinian side.

This is veering off into strange territory.

Our universities corrupt the youth

I would say they do when it comes to Israel.

I would suggest today's university student would understand the horror of the Holocaust and be quite supportive of a safe homeland. As I think most thinking people are.

makeourfuture No, I believe the left are hypocritical in the regards to who they criticise and why. If the targets arent pro Western and / or White, they seem to fall silent.

Do you have a point you wish to debate, or are you just going to drop in cryptic one liners?

I think they teach about the Holocaust.

or are you just going to drop in cryptic one liners?

Only the passage of time can answer this question.

I find the normal (not extreme) left usually support whoever they believe the underdog to be. In my experience I've only witnessed anti-semitism in the UK from the far right and by the far right I mean the traditional far right and far right Muslims. I don't believe either of these groups have widespread support from either normal white people or normal Muslims. I'm quite fortunate to have friendships with people from many backgrounds and most people have the same dreams in life and don't want trouble with other people.

The existence now of Israel, as a predominately Jewish state, winds up the left enormously. I think the reason is, they'd like to cradle Jews as victims but Jews don't need them.

Your posts are getting more and more bizarre. You cannot honestly believe these theories, they sound like paranoid ramblings. If anyone hates anyone it is you who hates the left, and you hate them so much that you will make anything up to further your agenda.

This thread seems to have gone full Trump.

Invoking Trump to demean posters who are presenting facts you're uncomfortable with is both lazy and transparent.

Well universities don't brainwash Marxism into their students. Come on.

Slarti

I hate the antisemitism I see in the Labour party of today that's flourished particularly on Corbyn's watch, yes. Hands up to that one.

As for the rest? Perhaps it was a little flippant. My main point is that the left, in regards to Israel seem to view the conflict in that region extremely simplistically. Through an identity politics prism, which causes them blindness, or at least profound tunnel vision.

Are they facts or alternative facts? Sorry but painting the left as this evil group of extremists who are all but planning the next holocaust... Anti intellectualism and demonisation of universities and the youth... I mean, this is tin foil hat stuff, but it's exactly the sort of thing Trump and his supporters do to try and discredit the left who oppose them.

Cracked if you were able to step back for a moment and maybe re-read some of the replies on this thread you'll notice a great many state their support of Israel to exist as a state and also acknowledge the complexities of finding any sort of solution or progress in such a binary and entrenched conflict. They mention human rights transgressions committed by Israel, but these are flat out denied by others on this thread. There is definitely blindness and tunnel vision here but I see a lot of it coming from your direction. No criticism of Israel is accepted as true. Israel is presented as one of the most righteous, virtuous, and happiest states in the world, and anyone who doesn't agree "hates Israel and Jews".

I don't actually think those 'pro Palestinian' posters have any idea about just how pervasive and insideous anti semitism has infiltrated global culture. I'm reading a really good book at the moment, Antisemitism by Robert Wistrich who illustrates that this antisemitic ideology has been around for thousands of years.

Exactly this walkingdead11 - every time someone bangs on about Israelis killing Palestinian children - as if any sane army in the Western world would want to kill children - all I see is the old blood libel about Jews eating Christian children. It's just a new version of the same vile anti-semitism.

Bull! No one has stated that Israel is whiter than white, it's obvious that not everyone agrees that the actions of some of the Israeli gov have been highly questionable. It's also pretty obvious that there is a huge amount of propaganda about Israel that does not look at this as a two way conflict and that there are clear hero's (Palestinians) and villains (Jews)........this is quite simply not the case. The facts are that Israel is a thriving democracy, the only one in the Middle East where 20,000 Arabs live and enjoy FULL citizenship rights. Can the same be said in any other Middle eastern country where Jews live?? Well no. Israel isn't perfect, it is heavy handed for sure but when an entire group of people want you dead and gone, and take great pleasure in telling you so and acting on it frequently, it's going to happen.

Sugarcoma you'd have a point if anyone was saying all Jews kill children, rather than the state of Israel. The validity of that claim (against Israel) is up for debate, but when you misrepresent it as a slur against all Jews it doesn't allow for debate at all, it just shuts it down, and it gives credence to the argument that criticism of Israel is equated with anti-semetism as a means of silencing criticism of Israel.

Walkingdead so if I say some on this thread have presented Israel as being "whiter than white" (to use your words) that's "bull" but then you immediately claim Palestinians are presented as "heros"

You look at the thread, slarti.

A thread where someone posts a spoof about evil Jews thinking it's real, another poster says 'zionists CRY antisemitism whenever Israel is criticised' and another says Israel wants to wipe out all Palestinians and another, you, who bizarrely keeps comparing other posters (not those) to anti-semites favourite, trump.

La plus ca fecking change.

Histy some people do claim that any criticism of Israel is antisemitic, it's happened in this thread. And what mental gymnastics must you be going through to convince yourself that the left, who hate Trump, are anti semitic and therefore love Trump?