Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

Telemachus81

Generally? Palestinians are painted as the victim and Israeli jew as villian......of course this is not the case but when Jews are being compared to Nazi's we really have to ask ourselves what is at play here.

Why even bring Trump into a discussion about the UK left and antisemitism, whilst its true that there is a blurring of the lines, the tweet that order-order managed to snag before it was deleted (and whom JC is a follower), plus reports like this antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Antisemitism-Barometer-2017.pdf show that the left do have an issue.

There is simplistic people who think its a black and white issue at play and a demographic/voting bloc, where the same "blurring of the lines" are not interpreted when discussing Islam and is usually broad brushed as islamophic.

When it comes to violent antisemitism, threatening Jews, or posing any real risk to the community in the UK, the number one demographic isn't old white grannies in the countryside, let's just say.

I have never seen this claim that any criticism of Israeli policies is anti-Semitic.

Israel is a democracy- the govt has many opposition parties. Are you seriously suggesting that people claim that all those opposition parties are anti-Semitic?

And No I really don't get your repeated trump references.

OMG please tell me where this fair and green land is that people arent allowed to criticise islam for fear of political correctness. nearly everyday there is a story in the media designed to peddle fear of islam and muslims and the guardian and independent do it as much as the times and telegraph et al. if its not muslims are terrorists its muslims are fifth columnists/misogynists/rapists/trying to destroy christianity/animal torturers/disablists etc. if anything that makes us more sympathetic to judaism not about throwing each other under the bus. the only real life experience i had to leftie anti semitism was with the guy who come to mow our garden a couple of summers ago. we got chatting about politics and israel came up and we agreed on how unfair it all was. then he started ranting about how the holocaust was a lie and how jews rule the world, and i very quickly backed away and told him i didnt agree at all. he thought id side with him. like a brexiteer, i know an anti semite is only warming up on the jews before they do a final solution on muslims.

i realised then how 'white' anti semitism is very ugly and ancient and deep, its about much more than left and right and even bigger than christianity. its a resentment and hatred from jealousy, the low self esteem from the old reliance on jewish moneylenders as well as the modern arab gulf moneylenders. it was always to do with white supremacy, how dare they have the oil/money etc.

isn't old white grannies in the countryside

Are towns now, like universities apparently, seedbeds of intolerance?

histiny You don't even have to leave this page. Sugarcoma openly equates a criticism of the state of Israel with a slur against the entire Jewish people. She literally says it's the same antisemitism.

OMG please tell me where this fair and green land is that people arent allowed to criticise islam for fear of political correctness.

I think you will find that the same people who are trying to defend their political sphere as others blurring the lines of criticism are also the first to say that the opposite political sphere are stiring up division and hatred and jumping to scream islamphobia, it is certainly evident on this thread if you spend the time and advance search some of the prominent posters.

Are towns now, like universities apparently, seedbeds of intolerance?

Make, your a self professed American Tankie, so your nuance of the situation is slightly biased.

But please tell me, "Final Solution" is words that cannot be interpreted any other way according to you, and quite rightly Katie Hopkins was sacked because of it, now, we have a situation where Labour Palestine on Twitter, and followed by JC so pretty much endorsed, used the same language.

So where is your consistency ?

Oh how very convenient that now all of a sudden settlements arent illegal. If you keep telling yourself that that black is white, eventually you will believe it. The sad thing is, I think Israelis are so deluded that they actually believe that black is white. Even USA does not back settlements - even the bastion of tolerance that isTrump, has to tell Netanyahu to slow down with thr settlement building and we all know Trump has no love for muslims. Its very telling that Obama couldn't stand Netanyahu, but Netanyahu and Trump get on very well.

All of a sudden, on this thread, settlements have now become legal. Yep, kicking Palestininans out of their homes and moving in themselves is a long time hobby of Israelis. It is legal to kick em out and move in dont ya know, in the enlightened democracy that is Israel.

Isnt it interesting that Israel, who is so excited about the prospect of peace with Palestine, keeps blocking any channel that may recognise Palestine's exustence. The latest being interpol. Interpol have recognised Palestine as a member country, despite Israel's objection. The world is fast growing impatient with Israel's oppression of Palestinians.

I would suggest today's university student would understand the horror of the Holocaust and be quite supportive of a safe homeland

You'd think so, wouldn't you? And yet while there are countless accounts of uni-based, pro Palestinian activism, I'm struggling to find many reflecting an interest in Israel's interests

I found this revealing: apparently Tosh McDonald said recently that where people in the 1930's fought against Franco's Spain, and more recently people fought against apartheid in South Africa, now they had Israel. It came across as "every generation needs a cause" and so they'd lit on Israel - wasn't that lucky?
www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/anger-over-insult-to-memory-of-jewish-fighters-against-franco-1.440835

And yet while there are countless accounts of uni-based, pro Palestinian activism, I'm struggling to find many reflecting an interest in Israel's interests

Are you saying that one cannot be critical of Israel and understand the horrors of the holocaust?

Well I'm happy to hear criticism that is fair and not anti-Semitic.

I'm sure any normal thinking person would want to distance themselves from the ridiculous link posted, and the stupid assertions like Israelis want all Palestinians dead etc etc of which are, as usual, on this thread.

Israel's interest seems to be land grab and denying human rights to Palestinians. You wont find many universities, especially in the UK supporting oppression and rightly so.

Histiny, Israel's knesset has some gems that want all Palestinians dead.

Are you saying that one cannot be critical of Israel and understand the horrors of the holocaust?

There can be criticism and it's definitely not black and white situation, but bringing it back to the OP, when the left call for "Final Solutions" there isn't much criticising involved

If I recall correctly, its Israel's justice minister who calls Palestinian children 'littke snakes' and justifies their killing. This is the Justice Minister's view, wonder what the extremist element of Israel think of Palestinian children. Ah yes, I remember, that element rejoiced when watching Gaza being bombed from an "outdoor cinema" with sofas and popcorn. Then tgere were thise singing about no school in Gaza as the children are all dead.

Hmmm, I wonder why not many universities reflect Israel's interests.

VeryInteresting

And Palestinian children are taught that Jews are vermin, the only good Jew is a dead Jew and that Hitler was a hero.........both sides behave appallingly.

We get it @VeryInterseting your in favour of a "final solution", no nuance, its black and white, Israel are the bad guys, it will somehow reduce into an "evil west" narrative.

The rest of us are just dumb political pawns

Are you saying that one cannot be critical of Israel and understand the horrors of the holocaust?

No, I'm not. My interest here was in the almost obsessive focus on just one aspect of the problem, rather than a wider approach

Israel's interest seems to be land grab and denying human rights to Palestinians. You wont find many universities, especially in the UK supporting oppression and rightly so

Except those same universities which apparently are so concerned about justice and human rights have nothing to say about the ethnic cleansing of non-Muslims from most of the Middle East. Nothing to say about the fact that Gaza is Judenrein whilst there are 1.5 million Arab Muslims living as citizens of Israel. What hypocrisy and racism.

I would say if you want to see true apartheid look at the Arab states, most of which have virtually no minorities (and the ones they do have are persecuted, such as the Copts, Yazidis and Bahai). There is an actual status called "dhimmi" which relegates non-Muslims to second class citizens. People are afraid to criticise them for fear of a violent response or accusations of racism.

Yes, veryinteresting, I feel the Knesset uniquely has the utter tossers, the rest of the Middle East and indeed the world have far, far nicer people in govt.

Look it's shit. But Netanyahu won't be in power forever. And in the meantime, does not what is going on in Egypt, Yemen, Sudan, Saudi, Myanmar, n Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, America even, etc etc bother you just a tiny tiny bit? What is it about Israel that really gets you so irate whereas, I dunno, thousands of dead children in Syria doesn't?

No, I'm not. My interest here was in the almost obsessive focus on just one aspect of the problem, rather than a wider approach

But you contest that university students understand the horrors of the holocaust because they are critical of Israel.

Justanother, very interesting language you use there.
I have made no mention of being in favour of the heinous thing you imply.
Why on earth would I class myself and my country as "evil west", when its institutions, academics and public feel strongly about the atrocities perpetrated by Israel. We will not forget the death of those Palestinian children whilst Israel rejoiced