Anti-Semitism and the British Left

[bluebeau]

Here they go again. Why does the British Left have such an antisemitism problem?

Labour fringe speaker's Holocaust remarks spark new antisemitism row

A senior Labour MP has said he is shocked at some of the anti-Semitic tweets by party members that come before its disciplinary panel. John Cryer said some of what is written "makes your hair stand up", adding: "This stuff is redolent of the 1930s."

After the Chakrabarti whitewash, I'm not listening to anything Corbyn and the left have to say any more. And don't even get me started on Ken Livingstone. I'll never trust Labour or the left ever again, until they stand up and say, "We allowed anti-semitism to arise within Labour. We just went,'deny, deny, deny' and looked the other way. We were wrong". Then, and only then, will I ever give them the time of day once again.

I doubt it is just coincidental that anti-semitism has only reared its ugly head of late, since Corbyn took over as leader of the Labour party. I'm not saying there was none at all before then, but that was when it got bad. Did you see, a few months back, a Liberal Democrat MP with anti-semitic views started shooting his mouth off? LibDem leader at the time, Tim Farron just turned around and fired him, immediately. That's leadership. Corbyn, on the other hand, has let Labour party anti-semites run riot and basically done nothing. He didn't even deal decisively with Livingstone, who should have been banned from Labour ten times over by now.

Corbyn has damaged forever Labour's reputation as a non-racist party. It took decades to build up that reputation, and just one world class muppet to ruin it.

it only seems to be with Jews that everyone else thinks they have an equal say in defining what constitutes anti-semitism.

That's not true is it? People are always disagreeing about what constitutes racism, sexism, homophobia, islamaphobia, and so on. If a Muslim told me that as an atheist who disagrees with some aspects of Islam (and other religions) that I was islamaphobic I would disagree with them and would not think they had the right to define the concept in any way they wish, particularly in a way that silenced legitimate criticism of religion.

Actually, I believe statelessprincess's "demonstration of credulity" is a valuable point of reference, showing as it does that for some, their bias is so extreme and their rejection of nuance so determined that they'll believe almost anything which supports their narrative

The same applies to the endless parroting about "Illegal settlements", around which Cracked did a good job of explaining some of the issues. Worryingly, it's almost as if some decide what their stance is going to be before actually considering any evidence, then look retrospectively for something to justify it, snatching at useful-sounding phrases along the way

It's one way of doing things, but not perhaps something which will provide any long term solutions

it's almost as if some decide what their stance is going to be before actually considering any evidence, then look retrospectively for something to justify it

Indeed

Re pp below who says they believe the obsession with Israel is because it's pro-Western, I actually disagree - I think it's because it's the world's only Jewish state.

Sadly, I agree with you.

I think many of those who passionately hate Israel haven't even worked out for themselves exactly why they feel that way.

They don't hate Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis, Burmese, Pakistanis, we could go on forever, but they do hate Zionists. Zionists are the true enemy.

What makes Zionists different to all others?

Hmm, I have no idea.

I don't actually think those 'pro Palestinian' posters have any idea about just how pervasive and insideous anti semitism has infiltrated global culture. I'm reading a really good book at the moment, Antisemitism by Robert Wistrich who illustrates that this antisemitic ideology has been around for thousands of years.

Well can we all agree that we should seek peace? I think that should be our goal.

The Labour party is finished. Unless they admit that Corbyn has presided over the biggest rise in anti-semitism in the UK for decades, and remove him, they are fully accepting an identity as a racist party. It's unthinkable that it's comes to this. Although I don't agree with all of Tony Blair and Gordon Brown's politics, they would never have let this happen on their watch. I can't believe no-one has gone to jail over this yet. Maybe it's just a matter of time before someone does, and then Labour will be utterly exposed as an anti-semitic mess. Sad.

Of course we should, future - I'd have thought that was a given

Whether we can realistically expect to get peace in the current circumstances is perhaps less certain, but that's no reason not to try

OP as a Tory you are so full of shite. If Labour were to be on the edge if extinction you would be joyous.

And your hand wringing over anti semitism is ghastly and nasty. You really could not give a care about this.

Unless they admit that Corbyn has presided over the biggest rise in anti-semitism in the UK for decades, and remove him, they are fully accepting an identity as a racist party.
And of course, you are equally as concerned about any other party allowing any other brand of racism to flourish, right?

samG76 I agree with all of that but I think post WW2 things have changed. The existence now of Israel, as a predominately Jewish state, winds up the left enormously. I think the reason is, they'd like to cradle Jews as victims but Jews don't need them.

I also think the vibrant antisemitism on the left is partly due to the long march of cultural Marxism through our institutions, especially in education. Seeking victims and finding them wherever white people can be said to be the authors of their victim hood. Raise the subject of the attempted genocides, persecutions and massacres of Coptics, Armenian, Yazhidi Christians. The Bahaii people in Iran etc etc, all committed by the muslim theocracies, and they'll look at you blankly. Better still they'll just call you "islamophobic".

They believe its right & virtuous to fight for a Palestinian state, when he people that would be running it would be (exactly as they are now in W Bank, Gaza, Syria, Iran etc) beheaded apostates, throwing gay people form tall buildings or stoning "adulterous" women to death. I could go on and on. That's why a large majority of Israel Arabs boast that they prefer living in Israel than in any Arab state.

Leftists like to hide behind the shield of "Its not antisemitic to criticise Israel". Yet should anyone try defending UKIP in the same way, "It's not racist to discuss Immigration" and you'll be met with the same allegation of "Racist" from them -- and allegation is proof sufficient, there is no defence to it. [See up thread]

Bottom line is: Mention 'Jew' and 'Israel' is not far behind. Most British Jews have nothing to do with Israel. However for many on the Left, anti-Zionism is merely code for Antisemitism. Condemning what Israel does to the Palestinians? Good for you! How brave! So when did the left ever condemn the Palestinians? They commit atrocity after atrocity and get no censure whatsoever.

I'll believe that line when I see the likes of Corbyn telling Hamas to stop their evil. Think that's likely???

.

Well to achieve peace, either one side completely destroys the other, or puts them in such a terrible state that they feel they have no choice or some sort of bargaining must take place.

This second option requires the two parties to communicate.

Can we agree the second option is preferable?

histinyhandsarefrozen Your last post. Nail hit squarely on the head.

Can we agree the second option is preferable? There's not a solitary sane person on the planet who would disagree with that. But I'm afraid its just la la land...

Under UN Resolutions 242 - 338, as well as Oslo, it is up to the Palestinians to negotiate with Israel and to provide it with stable and secure borders: the Palestinian leadership's again and again flatly refuses to do that and continues to insist that Israel should be replaced with a vast Palestinian state. Now with that in mind, and with the best will in the world, how on Earth are negotiations going to happen in those conditions? Especially when the people calling for the destruction of Israel, know, that so many well meaning, identity politics obsessed, left wingers here in the west, back them (and their wish to see Israel destroyed,) 100%?

make when Corbyn says "well we have to speak to both sides" you do know he is full of shit?

1. He hasn't been speaking to both sides, (from his powerful position over the years as backbencher MP), he's been speaking to one side and
2. Do you really think Corbyn is the only person in the world to consider peace talks/negotiations/diplomacy with both sides? Do you truly think there haven't been dedicated people attempting for years to do just that? Jesus.

Netanyahu has a lot to answer for and the settlement building is shit. But Palestine is far from blameless - they pay salaries to the families of those who are convicted for terrorist acts against Israel. The longer the sentence the higher the salary.

The Hamas charter explicitly states that negotiation is not an option:
"There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility."

Corbyn is excellent at saying lovely little quotes that sound progressive and are anything but. Don't get me started on the 20k he's pocketed for appearing on Iranian state TV or his support for the Islamic Revolution there which set back woman's right immeasurably. The man is a dated joke. And he is just as much a wealthy, privileged old white man as many members of cons criticised for being. He is a career politician born with a silver spoon like many others. He's done well to win over so many despite this I'll give him that.

The conditions for negotiations are tough, no doubt. But with the other option being violence and death, should we not try our hardest to find some room for resolution?

Totally agree OP, it’s disgusting and I did not vote labour at last election because of this - and it’s got worse since.

Us? Why is it anymore to do with us, than say the situation in Kashmir is up to us?

I always get a bit twitchy when I see the term 'cultural Marxism' bandied about. It's the alt-rights aka Neo-Nazi's new buzzword now that 'snowflake' has been done to death.

Equally twitchy about the term "Alt Right"?

I agree, histinyhands.

How can you hold up Israel as an oppressive state and overlook Egypt? Or Sudan? (both big on the persecution of Christians). Yes, democracies are held to higher standards, but come on.

Not to mention the failure of so many neighbouring states to help the Palestinians any more than Israel did.

How can you hold up Israel as an oppressive state and overlook Egypt? Or Sudan?

Hang on now, so every time anyone criticises a country/ person/ group/ etc for anything, they must also list all the others guilty of similar things?

Not every time no, of course not. The point people have been making is that left wingers never do. Choosing only to obsess over Israel.

I also think the vibrant antisemitism on the left is partly due to the long march of cultural Marxism through our institutions, especially in education. Seeking victims and finding them wherever white people can be said to be the authors of their victim hood. Raise the subject of the attempted genocides, persecutions and massacres of Coptics, Armenian, Yazhidi Christians. The Bahaii people in Iran etc etc, all committed by the muslim theocracies, and they'll look at you blankly. Better still they'll just call you "islamophobic

Are you saying you feel white people are getting a bad deal from it all?