so Brexiteers, are you happy to be paying £10 BILLION a YEAR to the EU now?

[ssd]

good grief, thought this was about saving money??

oh and the sovereignty, of course

"Remainers talk and shout the most"

Wow, just PMSL. UKIP & the euroskeptics were screechy banshees for years... decades, truly, before they finally got their Referendum. If they got to be so noisy then, I get to be an unhappy & very noisy Remainer now. And for at least 2.5 decades to come.

I will continue to (Re)Moan as Long & Loud as I like. Suck.It.Up.

There was a whole host of reasons why I voted remain . What I still cannot understand is why people feel it necessary to harm the relationship with our biggest customer ? The member states must think we have taken leave of our senses ,' why does the UK want to make it harder to trade with us , their single biggest customer ?'

I keep trying to come up with a valid reason , but the only conclusion I have been able to draw is that the country is labouring under a inflated sense of its own self importance . I say that as someone who loves my country .

but the only conclusion I have been able to draw is that the country is labouring under a inflated sense of its own self importance

Well there's the Special Relationship.

What do you mean by "native"? You need to examine yourself Cat because me thinks that you are in the same camp that you claim the Leavers are in. Moreover, your underlying assumprion is that the only place English is spoken well is in the UK by the "natives"?

And by the by, the biggest butchers of the Queen's english are those born and bred here.

Remainers like you, damage the cause. You get extremely worked up to the point that you get personal, going through people's posts on other threads to get info on them.

I do not care that there are some Leavers and some Remainers who are racist. The majority of Leavers and Remainers ate good people. Virtue does not lie solely in the bosom of Remainers. In fact, many remainers prove otherwise.

Frumpety, the pros and cons for leave and remain were debated ad infinitum during the referendum. Maybe you can see a strong reason but 52% did.

Why should the country not have faith in its own importance? Should it believe that it can only exist by being part of the EU? There are many countries that stand on their own without giving up their sovereignty to a bloc; the UK cannot? Why not? The strength of the UK depends on the strength and will of its people. So if many talk it down, say it cannot survive without being part of the EU, do everything to frustrate negotiations, and generally depress anyone listening to them, then yes, the UK could fail. That failure would be the prize for some Remainers. That is what they want to achieve.

Why should the country not have faith in its own importance? Should it believe that it can only exist by being part of the EU?

We'd do ok. Probably. The fact that we have a massive trading partner on our door steps, people there who can speak our language and have skills that we can benefit from, a simple transport link and a massive market on our door step might suggest that being part of it has some benefits.

Some people might also think that it's a lot easier to do effective deals and to have the advantage of bargaining power when you are part of a bigger collective. A single worker has less bargaining power with other companies than a union does. Yes, a majority have to agree but it's more effective.

And yes - people did vote to Leave. And some people are asking Remainers to make it work and stop 'moaning'. Funny - I could have sworn people voted to enter Europe in a referendum and yet people didn't tell people who had concerns to be quiet.

There are people who do have massive concerns over what Brexit will look like - and I would have thought that during the negotiation phase, that is the perfect time to raise those concerns and to say how their lives and industry are being affected, so the negotiations could address them.

And as I said I love my country , I could spend hours extolling its virtues , literally hours if you have the time

Sovereignty , I am fairly sure that after the referendum , it was explained , possibly a bit late , that the UK had in fact never lost its sovereignty . That the idea and the reality were very different .

Before the referendum , I think that some people in the leave camp , actually did a massive disservice to this lovely country and its citizens by talking it down , being told that it was a bit rubbish , with its paltry exports of over 100bn to the EU , once free of the self imposed shackles of the EU , we could do better . The problem with this is the 'we' , I personally am not suddenly going to metamorphosis into something I am not and neither is any other person in the UK . The regions who feel 'left behind' are not suddenly going to benefit from massive investment from anywhere , EU funding for projects will cease . If those who have felt disenfranchised believe that any money is going to be coming their way anytime soon from the UK government , when they have been largely ignored by successive UK governments , well perhaps we should add disillusioned to disenfranchised

Yes Orlanta well said.

And the thing is, even if we felt constrained, this is no way to go about it. There is no plan, and there is no transparency. We learn through leaks, and even those can be manipulated.

There was no plan at all. Nothing. Are we supposed to rely on David Davis' poker playing skills?

To some degree this entire conversation is rediculous because the way this was approached, the way it is unfolding, is almost idiocy/madness. A farce.

Well there's the Special Relationship

Anyone with a brain knew that was bullshit

Agree with orlantina, frumpety and make

So if many talk it down, say it cannot survive without being part of the EU, do everything to frustrate negotiations, and generally depress anyone listening to them, then yes, the UK could fail

Thats just silly

You can't talk a country down, nobody on this thread can do anything about frustrating negotiations and the UK wont fail if some people are depressed

No other large countries and trading blocs speak our language? Only countries in the EU? Surely you jest.

So you suppose Orlantina that the civil servants and the government do not want to get the best for the country? Do you think they will not be doing consultations, trying to understand the impacts, etc? Clearly, the only views the government must listen to are those who voted to remain?

We lost sovereignty to the EU and that is indisputable. It is part and parcel of being part of the EU. In fact, that is likely to be even more so as they move to deeper integration. Doing gymnastics with this issue on sovereignty will not wash. Yes, we had some wriggle room and some scope when transposing EU law but the fact is we were bound by EU law.

At the height of the Brexit debate, my friends for South Asia and Africa told me that they have never been racially abuse by British person. Rather, they have had racial abuse thrown at them by Eastern Europeans. The UK is amongst the most advance in terms of racial equality. I could see their point of view. They are massively disadvantaged by the preference given to Eastern Europeans.

Anyway, we could rehash the Brexit arguments to infinity and get nowhere. I out.

Happy Sunday all.

So you suppose Orlantina that the civil servants and the government do not want to get the best for the country? Do you think they will not be doing consultations, trying to understand the impacts, etc? Clearly, the only views the government must listen to are those who voted to remain

I am sure they are trying to get the best for our country. As I am sure Europe is trying to get the best for Europe.

Who has the upper hand in negotiations? Who has most of the power?

No other large countries and trading blocs speak our language? Only countries in the EU? Surely you jest

It's much easier to trade with, share borders with and share people with countries that are next to you rather than a long way away.

So this is all part of Brexit negotiations.

You do think it's ok to discuss trade, custom tariffs etc during negotiations?

No other large countries and trading blocs speak our language? Only countries in the EU? Surely you jest

orlantina didnt say that

They are always very precise with their language

Cross post

Another - We need to support this country. We need to help the government succeed in getting the best for the people of the UK. Let's get behind the people negotiating. Surely, leave or remain, we all want this country to progress and be strong.

Not another one of these tedious posts telling us we all need to 'help the government'/'get behind' this nonsense. Why are people so keen on passive acceptance? I'm not 'getting behind' any of this crap, neither do I intend to 'help the government' (whatever that means) implement this act of self-sabotage.

Didnt lose sovereignty either...or at least not according to May

But i know youve gone...

but the fact is we were bound by EU law.

Which as a member state we voted on. If we nodded some laws through without bothering to find out what they said, then that's our Government's fault. Some laws we actually sponsored.

my friends for South Asia and Africa told me that they have never been racially abuse by British person. Then all I can say is that they have been lucky.

my friends for South Asia and Africa told me that they have never been racially abuse by British person

Do they live in Britain...cos that would explain it

I agree with peregrina, they have been incredibly lucky

Not another one of these tedious posts telling us we all need to 'help the government'/'get behind' this nonsense.

What exactly have we got to get behind and help the Government on? It was all going to be so straightforward. Are you now telling us it's not?

If you want me to get behind helping the Tory party and their splits, well tough. I don't vote for them and have no intention of starting to do so.

Yes, they live in Britain. That is their experience. You wish to tell them they do not know their own experience? Yes, that is their fact and reality. But you won't accept that because it does not fit the one and only view that counts - that of some of those who want to remain.

Neither peregjna or myslef said that they do not know their own experience

We both said they had been lucky

No one said they didn't know their own experience - they said they were lucky. Racial prejudice has been around a long time. That's why we made laws against it.

Wow bad typos there