so Brexiteers, are you happy to be paying £10 BILLION a YEAR to the EU now?

[ssd]

good grief, thought this was about saving money??

oh and the sovereignty, of course

[wasonthelist]

This is the thing I mean -

www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu

A small part of an engine travels 2000 miles and crosses the channel 3 times - how in fuck does that make any sense?

[orlantina]

The published example of the car components that BMW sends back and forward through Europe is a classic - there is no way that makes any sense

I wonder how many car components are shifted throughout the USA?

And Mexico?

Providing valuable jobs in those areas that make them. Unless you want all car companies to only use goods made within say 50 miles of the factory? And then all those jobs are reliant on that car firm and a whole community is devastated if that company goes bust?

[orlantina]

A small part of an engine travels 2000 miles and crosses the channel 3 times - how in fuck does that make any sense

Would you prefer that part is made in Germany and the British worker would lose their job?

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

Leave may not have been about trade but it will absolutely be about trade as this goes through. So maybe in part is should have been about trade and should have been thought about. As every US president has always had in their mind - 'it's the economy, stupid!'

[wasonthelist]

Would you prefer that part is made in Germany and the British worker would lose their job?

Unless you want all car companies to only use goods made within say 50 miles of the factory?

So fuck to the environment?

How does it make sense to have the same lump of metal (that camshaft is the size of couple of large cucumbers) travel 2000 miles and cross the channel 3 times?

Oh yes, it doesn't matter - because jobs.

I love it that my (IMHO perfectly valid) concern for the environment makes me apparently want everyone to be out of work - what a bollocks argument.

[orlantina]

I love it that my (IMHO perfectly valid) concern for the environment makes me apparently want everyone to be out of work - what a bollocks argument

OTOH - if the raw component the supplier needs is in France but the factory that can make it into a crankshaft is in England, but the engine it's needed for is in Germany, what do you do?

How would the car manufacturer do it? Make everything in one country? One town?

What about the chips for the computer? Made in South Korea? The assembly plants needed to make the radio and the display board?

It gets very complicated when you have a car made up of 1000s of components which then become part of other components..

WWYD?

[wasonthelist]

WWYD?

In my humble opinion we have constructed a system of economics which favours long distance travel over local manufacture. I can see no good reason for it - I guess it provides jobs at airports, sea ports, roads, in hospitals etc, but it makes no environmental sense - so if it were up to me I'd be imposing much greater taxes on moving stuff (and people) around. We are destroying the planet for this?
As for the jobs argument - (almost) all the people who made, TVs and radios in the UK lost their jobs already so that doesn't wash.

[orlantina]

n my humble opinion we have constructed a system of economics which favours long distance travel over local manufacture. I can see no good reason for it

OTOH - if one car company made everything for its cars in one local area - thus providing loads of jobs locally - and the company went bust, is that a good thing for the local community?

I agree about the environment - but at the same time, I can see the issue about jobs. I buy components that have been imported and then sold locally. I also buy services from the USA and Germany - which are cheaper than local services but then ensure my business hasn't got as much expenses so it makes me a bit cheaper - thus giving me income to spend locally.

It's complicated.

[wasonthelist]

OTOH - if one car company made everything for its cars in one local area - thus providing loads of jobs locally - and the company went bust, is that a good thing for the local community?

Of course it isn't. I know it's illegal to mention the past, but when we had more of a manufacturing base, particular industries (like the Potteries in the Stoke area) would cluster so suppliers didn't just have one customer.

You seem to be be thinking about this in a very one-dimensional "nothing can ever change" way. We can and should change how we do these things - Globalisation is trashing the planet and very few people seem to care.

[PebblesFlintstone]

Brexit will not benefit the environment. It is not going to magically provide us with a government that gives a shit about environmental issues. UK governments have been notoriously lax about environmental regulations, and being obliged to follow EU regulations has benefited our environment considerably. Look at the state of our beaches before we had to fall into line with the EU blue flag initiative.

Brexit is not going to magic up lots of local industry either. If you look at supporters of a "hard Brexit" like Rees-Mogg, Fox, Patrick Minford, it is all about opening up the market to cheaper, lower-regulated products from China, India, US etc. And of course developing closer ties with Trump, that well known supporter of the environment.

[wasonthelist]

At no point did I suggest Brexit will either benefit or destroy the environment any more than we do already.

[PebblesFlintstone]

You were suggesting that globalisation is bad for the planet and seemed (to me) to imply that trading in the EU is part of this globalisation, which of course it is. Although globalisation is not really global, it is based mainly upon regionalization and regional trading blocs. To an extent, I agree that long-distance transportation of goods, parts etc is detrimental to the environment. But the globalisation boat has sailed. We can't unilaterally turn back the clock on it. The rest of the world will continue trading globally, and in regional blocs (which virtually all countries in the world are part of). IMO trading within regions is less damaging than transporting goods even longer distances.

[CardinalSin]

Don't worry Wason, as soon as we drop out of the customs union BMW will move production of everything that the UK makes over to Germany. That'll help the environment.

[wasonthelist]

But the globalisation boat has sailed. We can't unilaterally turn back the clock on it.

So that's it is it? Fuck the world , it's just the way it is?

IMO trading within regions is less damaging than transporting goods even longer distances.

Well that depends - sending a BMW camshaft on a 2000 mile trip around the EU is hardly less damaging than buying one that was made 200 miles away.

[wasonthelist]

2000 of course

[wasonthelist]

Don't worry Wason, as soon as we drop out of the customs union BMW will move production of everything that the UK makes over to Germany. That'll help the environment.
Fine by me.

[mothertruck3r]

One thing that is clear over the past 2 years, we have shouted down alternative political views so much that they have turned into the silent majority. Rather than vain arguing, they choose to speak with their votes.

Well said.

[CardinalSin]

At least Wason is quite clear that he's happy for our economy to collapse just so that we can, what, "take back control"?

[wasonthelist]

At least Wason is quite clear that he's happy for our economy to collapse just so that we can, what, "take back control"?
Bollocks, that's not what I said at all. your infantile level of debate is a sad feature of this whole issue.

[habenero20]

Of course it isn't. I know it's illegal to mention the past, but when we had more of a manufacturing base, particular industries (like the Potteries in the Stoke area) would cluster so suppliers didn't just have one customer.

how will we get back to manufacturing? Wages are too high here now.

[wasonthelist]

Or viewed another way, the costs of shipping stuff here fron China are ridiculously low. We shouldn't be spewing emissions all over burning finite fossil fuels shipping and flying stuff all over the world

[CardinalSin]

Ah, "Infantile", from the person who thinks we should stop exporting or importing anything. And that is somehow going to benefit our economy.

[makeourfuture]

We shouldn't be spewing emissions all over burning finite fossil fuels shipping and flying stuff all over the world

Well you know....we have off-shored a lot of the nasty parts of manufacturing. And wouldn't we have to import the raw iron?

But again, this rational talk is not at all why leavers voted the way they did.

[histinyhandsarefrozen]

We shouldn't be spewing emissions all over burning finite fossil fuels shipping and flying stuff all over the world

I'm not getting your points at all, wasonthelist. Could you perhaps just explain in simple words for the infantile how Brexit is going to improve things environmentally?

[wasonthelist]

Could you perhaps just explain in simple words for the infantile how Brexit is going to improve things environmentally?
If you bothered to read the thread I have answered that already