about those on the autistic spectrum in mainstream schools?

[OverbearingHouseSitter]

Basically I've read so many threads recently about those on the autistic spectrum being completely let down by teachers and senior staff in schools.

I mean punishing those on the autistic spectrum in incidents when it is entirely inappropriate, and the lack of understanding of some teachers that you cannot use the same behaviour strategies on some children who require a different approach due to SEN.

And then there are times when punishment should not be given at all, such as when a child who is on the autistic spectrum behaving in a way that the teacher doesn't like, yet the teacher not seeming to realise that this behaviour is part of their SEN!

My mother was a teacher and I realise how hard being a teacher is. She got signed off sick with stress... it's a bloody hard job. But AIBU to think that some teachers and school staff- NOT all- seem to be consistently failing those on the autistic spectrum and those with other SEN, whatever these may be?

This is not just from this forum either! There have been instances from people I know I've heard about and with friends kids.

For example, a friends child was recently punished as he did not understand something the teacher said, ie, it was some form of light sarcasm the teacher used, friends DS with SEN did not register this, did what the teacher told the pupils sarcastically not to do and was then mortified and confused when the teacher punished him.

So AIBU?

I also apologise if I have used an language around people with special needs that you do not like/prefer not to use. My friend prefers the term "on the autistic spectrum" opposed to "autistic child" but if I have said anything wrong please tell me!

Oh and I am autistic myself

I can see this from both sides. I'm a retired teacher with a close family member on the autistic spectrum.

We were"lucky" in that I recognised signs very early on in DN and helped sis press for a diagnosis. As a consequence he was in special ed from the day he started school. Absolutely no complaints about his education, the teachers were amazing and we do believe he was able to fulfil his potential. He lives in sheltered housing now and has a full and happy life. He would have floundered in mainstream and been a constant drain on the teacher's time.

I've taught in special ed schools and, even there with small classes and a better teacher pupil ratio, some days I knew I had not been able to "do enough" with some pupils because another was having a bad day.

In mainstream it is even more difficult to be fair to all pupils. At least when I was teaching MS we had plenty of TA support, far more than some schools have today. All pupils needed my time but sometimes one demanded more than I had to give. I'm pretty sure the parents of those children thought I wasn't doing enough but I had a responsibility to the rest. They expected me to be there on demand for their child and that just isn't possible in mainstream, or even in SE.

I have teacher friends who are really struggling at the moment. The lack of support and funding for children with extra needs is a disgrace but still some people blame the teachers who are stretched beyond what is fair and reasonable. They cannot be expected to neglect the majority for the needs of a minority, but that's what is happening. And that's unfair to ALL the children.

I work with disabled children, I know what it is like to be one. We have all encountered that mentality

YOU ARE SO NOT BEING AT ALL UNREASONABLE

there is a school nnear us that has had several pupils transfer to from our school. the other school is really good with SN

some of the teachers at our school are great, some are not so great. the system is rigid. ds got punished because he is autistic.

constant battle for reasonable adjustments for his disability.

Feel free to report viva.
What you are not is someone who is qualified to disagree with a professionals diagnosis of autism.

Don't discriminate against us VivaLasVegas. Autistic people can achieve great things, even doing masters and phds. We can be valuable in lots of ways when people understand ua

JonSnow'sWife

^Oh dear. Often a parent's experience is anything but 'narrow'.
Also. SNs funding is fluent. It has to be.^

I don't know what you mean by "fluent".

Deep and narrow refers to a lot of understanding but within a limited range. You know a lot about your child whereas I know less about the specifics of 1,000s and 1,000s of children I've been responsible for.

Yankee

"I am starting an autism MA with Sheffield uni."

Good luck. I hope you're going there to learn as opposed to telling them why they're all wrong.

I used that example to show how parents look to AEN as exoneration of a child's behaviour; frequently when the child doesn't have AEN.

Not having a diagnosis doesn't mean they don't have SNs or require additional support. DS still needed support when he didn't have a diagnosis, from everything from support with his behaviour (anxiety based - he hated the large classrooms, crowds etc every morning but was fine once in & settled) to his academic progress, his school told his professionals that he was fine and working above where he needed to be. This was shown not to be the case when we moved and we discovered after his initial tests at the new school he was working two years behind. He didn't have any diagnosis then, but they implemented strategies to help him deal with his anxiety and a staggered extra help academically to help him. He's now almost caught up academically, basically, all because someone actually gave a shit.

Surely a higher form entry means you should be able to access help for those who need it more easily? I.e more pupils = more funding anyway. DSs previous school was four form entry, his current one is one form entry.

Viva how cab you tell an autistic person what it feels like to be autistic?

I hope you will start listening to the voices of autistic people. You aren't the only one, even autistic charities think they know better than us

The amount of times I have heard 'Oh yes we have had autism training, what you think is....'

Spikeyball

PhD, NPQH, 2 x MSc, BSc, 11 years as a SENCO, 3 years in SEN and 3 decades working in education say that whilst I can neither officially diagnose nor overturn a diagnosis, I sure as fuck can disagree with other professionals.

YankeeCandles

When did I do that? Putting words in my mouth (badly behaved) and simply inventing things isn't helping anything.

You have written you know less about the specifics.

I have encountered so many people like you as an autistic and as an autistic parent. Ideas like you have cause autistic people alot of damage

Sorry autocorrect changed fluid to fluent.

SNs funding is fluid, it has to be, surely a head knows this?

Deep and narrow refers to a lot of understanding but within a limited range. You know a lot about your child whereas I know less about the specifics of 1,000s and 1,000s of children I've been responsible for.

Sadly it doesn't make someone an expert in Autism, I have spent my lifetime in and out of hospital with my DD. It doesn't make me qualified in her condition more than her own Doctors.

Professionals also get it wrong sometimes. I got an apology off DSs Paeditrician. Do you know why? Because one or the things they once said to me was "DS can't have autism - he talks to me okay". That is scary when a professional isn't very clued up. The very same professional who refused to entertain the prospect for years is the same one who diagnosed him. Go figure.

You're getting less and less coherent Yankee.

Good luck in you Masters.

You hopefully wouldn't say I know how it is living in a wheelchair as I did a PHD in the subject. Autistic people are fair game though and people treat them like they are stupid. Well we aren't stupid.

As a teacher if I were to become proficient in every SEND and associated strategy that came through my classroom door, I would still be training and I have been teaching along time.

You don't need to be proficient, Boney. The people who have helped me the most have not been judgemental, taken the time to understand the way I communicate, not dismissive and kind.

Most important is treating me like a human being. Not telling me I am 'not coherent', calling me stupid et cetra

I think there should be more provision of special needs schools so that children who need it have access to better trained staff, quieter classrooms etc and help with resources. Some Sen children find a busy classroom too much and their meltdowns due to this can be detrimental to the learning of other children. I don't think mainstream schools are the best environment for many children's learning let alone those who struggle even more.

YankeeCandles

I appreciate what you are saying (and it is what I do) but that isn't good enough for some people.

I think it can vary from school to school. I pulled my children out of their last primary school because the head told parents whose children did have an ASD diagnosis that they didn't have ASD in his opinion. He would deliberately wind up the Sen Children until they exploded so they could be excluded, this purging his school of any problems.

Sen parents had problem after problem with children regularly self harming in school - this is year 4/5 - and a couple of suicide threats attempts.

I moved my children to a totally different school. The Senco should be bloody knighted. My son now loves going to school. He wants to work hard and do well and goes to school happy with a positive attitude. It's like a different child. His teacher is wonderful, really wonderful. But it's also a school wide attitude.

www.edp24.co.uk/news/education/mum-of-boy-12-with-autism-pleads-with-norfolk-school-to-be-flexible-on-strict-behaviour-rules-1-5203316 Anyone see the news about the new head of Great Yarmouth Academy expecting autistic children to make eye contact with teachers?

Over diagnosed?
Yeah. It's probably not Autism. It's probably just 'bad parenting'. Or munchausen's.