about those on the autistic spectrum in mainstream schools?

[OverbearingHouseSitter]

Basically I've read so many threads recently about those on the autistic spectrum being completely let down by teachers and senior staff in schools.

I mean punishing those on the autistic spectrum in incidents when it is entirely inappropriate, and the lack of understanding of some teachers that you cannot use the same behaviour strategies on some children who require a different approach due to SEN.

And then there are times when punishment should not be given at all, such as when a child who is on the autistic spectrum behaving in a way that the teacher doesn't like, yet the teacher not seeming to realise that this behaviour is part of their SEN!

My mother was a teacher and I realise how hard being a teacher is. She got signed off sick with stress... it's a bloody hard job. But AIBU to think that some teachers and school staff- NOT all- seem to be consistently failing those on the autistic spectrum and those with other SEN, whatever these may be?

This is not just from this forum either! There have been instances from people I know I've heard about and with friends kids.

For example, a friends child was recently punished as he did not understand something the teacher said, ie, it was some form of light sarcasm the teacher used, friends DS with SEN did not register this, did what the teacher told the pupils sarcastically not to do and was then mortified and confused when the teacher punished him.

So AIBU?

I also apologise if I have used an language around people with special needs that you do not like/prefer not to use. My friend prefers the term "on the autistic spectrum" opposed to "autistic child" but if I have said anything wrong please tell me!

The system just can't cope. There isn't enough funding. Part of me thinks autistic children shouldn't be in mainstream. For their benefit and for everyone else's. Only because ds1's school didn't really want him there. Time and time again on the SN boards you read of dc being unsupported and school's basically blatantly trying to get rid of them asap. They just can't be bothered. These children are just too much hassle. Apparently. Sad.

My dd is autistic. She is perfectly behave, significantly better behaved that most non SEN children.

Routine follower, very set idea if right and wrong, always telling others off when they are wrong eg swearing, messing about, smoking. She is not like vivalasvegas describes, you sound very ignorant.

I think the issue is that mainstream education is for the masses and the majority of students with additional needs would have them met better in specialist education. The funding needs to be put into special schools to a, remove the stigma attached with attending them and b, ensure a quality education and qualifications are received.

I have also had fantastic support from the school. Dd has lots of extra support and they really go above and beyond with her.

MynewnameisKy

I'm sorry you're upset. It certainly wasn't my intention and I don't really see why.

My belief in and experience of over-diagnosis has no bearing on your situation or child. Decades in education (and beginning in SEN years ago) has made me cynical though.

My school, through choice, has an excellent AEN department and I absolutely believe in inclusive education and that every child deserves to be helped to meet their potential. Since I have been here, the department has been expanded as well increasing the number of AEN children we accept.

YankeeCandles

I'm absolutely not ignorant.

Why would you expect your son to be the same as another I mentioned? I wouldn't.

Autism doesnt mean you are badly behaved

In fact autistic people will often grow up to be better behaved as they often dont like to break rules.

Do you work in education viva?

Every child deserves to meet their potential. If you're requires an unsustainable amount then what should happen? He gets a higher portion of the teacher's time than other children who then don't meet their potential?
there shouldn't be an unsustainable amount. I appreciate that isn't possible in the current education system, but that doesn't mean I will ever stop fighting for my child to get what he deserves. He gets a hgiher proportion of the teachers time because his needs are such that needs it. that simple.
He's not badly behaved. Has never been badly behaved in his entire school life, and that is part of the reason he was failed so badly by teachers in primary, because he was quiet and didn't demand time, so he was just left to his own devices. that doesn't change the fact that he has significant additional educational needs.

I never understand the argument that Austism is over diagnosed and I can only assume that people who believe that have never had first hand experience of the hoops that need to be jumped through to gain a diagnosis. I am sure a tiny minority get a diagnosis when it may not be appropriate but it is much more likely that someone won't get a diagnosis when it is very much appropriate.

Dd was seen as badly behaved by a teacher in year 1, however as soon as the year 2 and beond teachers recognised she has asd she is now perfectly behaved. I mean perfect, she is never in trouble and is an example to non SEN children.

Her year 1 teacher.was like you.

My belief in and experience of over-diagnosis has no bearing on your situation or child. Decades in education (and beginning in SEN years ago) has made me cynical though.

Experience of overdiagnosis?

Do you know how long it took DS to get diagnosed? Five years.

This was because some delightful person who worked in SEN thought they knew better than everyone else and my child was just naughty, which was odd because on the school report the paed asked for they said he wasn't a problem

Thankfully, I managed to get him into a much better school who have been incredibly supportive to him.

Often 'ASD friendly' environments suit all children better. It is a spectrum and many children would not even approach the point of diagnosis yet might benefit from clear rules, knowing what is coming next, not being told something in a sarcastic way. I am fairly sarcastic myself but I am careful not to use it even with my adult students. I do use it with my children but they know and feel confident to check with me if I am joking.

I think secondary school is often a naturally stressful place for kids with an ASD. Some poor behaviour is caused with inability to cope with the school environment. The point of inclusion was that support would follow the child. That is becoming less and less likely now that schools are scrabbling about for funding. We have laid off two thirds of our TAs. Kids with SEN and their parents are being horribly short-changed. I do my best in my classroom, but there's one of me, and 32 kids. It's very difficult to give the necessary support on my own.

If I remember correctly from a very recent thread viva is teacher and was resentful of a child with sn getting more funding than other children.

I do believe the current education system is not fit for purpose for many children with an ASC. This is not to criticize individual teachers - we have experienced some exceptional teachers. But even with those exceptional teachers my ds's got increasingly stressed in mainstream school.

So I have two very bright children - one at special school and one at home - who have missed out on the one thing they are good at (academics) because they could not cope with the social demands and sensory overload of large mainstream schools. And the future for them is terrifying because I am not sure that the mental health issues caused by being forced into an environment they found so stressful may never disappear.

@mynameisnotmichaelcaine we are in the same boat. I run a unit (an internal PRU) and we have a shirt stay resident with a full statement/ ehcp with an injury (broken limb) I asked for his Lsa to help him and was told no as there are not enough in school at the moment. It's very frustrating.

Fuckability

I'm a head of a large school for children from EYFS to IB.
Ex Primary teacher (numeracy specialist) and SENCO.

There unsustainable and unreasonable amounts. There can always be more spent on a child and their education, AEN or not. I say this despite our classes guaranteed to be smaller than 16 with one TA per class and another floating TA per cohort (3-form entry). More than half of our AEN children have 1:1 support on top of the other staff. There are still requests from the AEN dept. which are turned down.

I didn't say that autistic children were naughty or badly behaved. I don't think those terms are applicable as mens rea is necessary. I would argue about the 'breaking rules' part though as issues with EF do often mean that children with autism don't (can't) obey rules.

"Her year 1 teacher.was like you."

How so? Had formed her own opinions over decades of experience rather than become an angry parent feeling resentful with a deep but narrow experience?

One more time, I haven't mentioned bad behaviour.

shouldwestayorshouldwego

Up to and including Year 6, there is a visual timetable on the wall of every classroom as well as school rules (6 bullet points) so those aspects can help everyone ASD or not.

However, we also use 'job lists' a lot where children will be given tasks to complete within certain time frame. As well as this, resources are visible and children are free to access anything they feel may help them complete a task. These can be overwhelming and not suitable for ASD children. Sensory overload of a classroom with various wall-resources is an issue too. There's always a balance to be struck.

Spikeyball

I haven't been a teacher for years. I was shocked and disbelieving on another thread that a child's school was given an extra £50k for his support. I'm fairly sure that what you're doing is against the posting rules though.

I certainly wasn't resentful of the money. That isn't a million miles away from what a some parents of a child with AEN pay would per year (fees plus 1:1 support).

It doesn't start and end with teachers - there is a poor understanding of autism across many professions.

Children on the spectrum are being removed from their families. Social workers have very little training in this area (some none), appointed Guardians have little to no awareness/understanding - solicitor's have none and neither do Judges.

If you think awareness is bad for children on the spectrum? Try being an adult attempting to navigate the court system with no reasonable adjustments applied because you don't as yet have a diagnosis. (12 month waiting list before an assessment even starts)

Funding cuts mean that children with sen do not get adequate support.

It really depends on the school, its SENCo provision, but above all, training of the TAs. I've come across one or two teacher who, frankly, shouldn't be teaching anyone, let alone vulnerable adolescents. But they are a minority most teachers do a fine job under difficult circumstances. SLT is a whole different debate!

You did mention bad behaviour. You said someone broke someones nose

I am also ex nursery worker and then went in to management specialising with autistic children. I have an autistic child. I am also now in a profession where I deal with cp and hoping to specialise in autism

I am from a family of autistics and I am starting an autism MA with Sheffield uni. I am not an 'angry' parent

I disagree. Our ASD are so well supported and staff have lots of training. Sometimes the other kids don't understand, but not the adults.

I mentioned a child who wasn't autistic. A child who had had professional after professional say that their issues weren't because of autism or other AEN issues.*

I used that example to show how parents look to AEN as exoneration of a child's behaviour; frequently when the child doesn't have AEN.

*functioning alcoholic parents who refused to let parenthood get in the way of their socialising was the real reason. However, especially amongst high-achieving parents, a label for their child is desired

How so? Had formed her own opinions over decades of experience rather than become an angry parent feeling resentful with a deep but narrow experience?

Oh dear. Often a parents experience is anything but 'narrow'.

Also. SNs funding is fluent. It has to be.