To feel uncomfortable about this

[user1471558723]

My mother is in her late eighties, she lives alone and looks after herself. I live some distance away but speak to her most days. I do her shopping and visit her once or twice a week.
She attends a craft club once a week, it's attended by people of all ages.
A much younger lady began dropping my mother at home each week, this then developed into her offering to collect my mother. This lady let's call her Anne is very kind she has according to my mother an unsupportive partner, a large family, primary school age children, grown up children and grand children. She looks after them all and does not have a job. Anne also looks after her elderly father who has terminal cancer.
I was delighted when Anne offered my mother regular lifts to and from the craft club. But now the friendship has intensified. Anne is visiting my mum several times a week. She is "helping" my mother with all the administrative work that I used to do, sorting out insurance etc.
I've told my mum there is no need to involve Anne in all this as she obviously is a woman with commitments of her own. My mum insists Anne wants to do everything she does.
My mum is very well placed financially and reading between the lines life has not been so kind to Anne.
I would really like to think that Anne is a lovely lady who has found a friendship with my mother despite the 45 year age gap. I'm just a bit uncertain and would value other people's opinions.

I have set up a POA through a solicitor so that, should I want to hand over the management of my affairs to my children, all I have to do is sign the form activating the POA. They would then register it with my bank, building society etc.

I had to have a witness that I was of sound mind when I set the POA up, and I think the same applies to the activation. (The rules have changed since I did it for my mother, precisely because families were taking advantage of elderly relatives. ) If preparations have not been made before the person becomes incompetent - e.g. a stroke - then it has to go before the Court of Protection and it's all more long-winded and expensive.

So, while OP can suggest to her mother that she puts an enduring PoA in place, she can't do it off her own bat. Her mother has to agree. And if she refuses, nothing can be done until a doctor certifies that she is no longer compos mentis and it will have to be done through the CoP.

I agree with Peng, you can't just install cameras in a competent adult's house to spy on her and her friends. I'd be beyond furious if someone did that to me. And how much footage would you have to watch before you picked up some chance comment about getting the best quote from Compare the Market - or whatever else Anne has suggested? Many people, much younger than Op's mother, don't realise how much they are being fleeced by automatic renewals, even from firms like Saga.

I'd be keeping an open mind about Anne's motives at the minute because Op's mother obviously enjoys her company and the lifts, and there is no evidence that Anne is up to no good. I think the best thing to do is to try to get to know Anne better and then make up your mind. She might genuinely be trying to save you trouble by picking up the odd bit of shopping when she lives so close. It's the sort of thing a neighbour or friend would offer to do.

The financial stuff is more of a concern. Op what exactly has Anne done for your mother? Bank details are neither here nor there. We divulge them every time we buy something on line. You can't take money out of an account, only put it in. It's the PIN that's sacred and should never be divulged to anyone. How does your mother get cash? Is she able to get to the bank on her own?

A neighbours father, widowed professional man, gave £1m to phnone scammers. Remortgaged . Get your pofa

Blimey.

I have been helping an elderly friend with lifts and stuff when her DH was ill, and taking her shopping too. When her DH died I helped her with some admin. I did wonder why she didn't ask her children but I guessed their Dad had just died so she didn't want to bother them. Asking her why her children were not doing it would have seemed incredibly rude!

I offered to help as I like this lady and a few years ago she went out of her way, and spent a lot of time and effort, to do something for my DD, which endeared her to me massively. We have always got on well but the time we have spent together in the car recently has made us even better friends.

Now I am worrying that her family are looking at me with narrowed eyes thinking my motives are unscrupulous. I actually feel quite tearful that so many people would think I was up to no good.

Please please keep a very close eye. I used to work with the elderly and vulnerable and it is shocking how often this happens under the guise of conning people out of money.

So at what point do you all consider that you will become safeguarding issues and that it will be ok for your children to install CCTV in your homes and demand to have a say in how you spend your money?

When you're 60? 70? Much younger people than the OP's mum fall victim to scammers of all kinds. At what point is it ok for other (much younger) adults to assume you cannot possibly be competent and that as such they should be given power over your affairs?

It is one thing to warn the person of your suspicions and advise them to be careful. It's quite another to decide unilaterally that they must clearly have lost their mind and that their age means they cannot possibly be trusted to make their own decisions and that as such you should be granted legal power over them

And FWIW, I know people whose own children would use this position to fleece them out of money. In fact I know of someone who has gone NC with her son at the age of 90 because she has independently bought herself new clothes etc after the death of her financially controlling husband who never let her spend money and demanded to have access to her money.

Can you suggest power of attorney over your mums finances? That way Anne can't do too much damage if you are in control?

I also think some hidden cameras are a good idea.

If your mum has an accountant or friendly bank manager they should recommend LPOAs.

Can I just point out that being granted POA doesn't prevent the donor acting for themselves ... or at least not at the time it's granted, since by definition they have to be of sound mind to grant it in the first place

I agree that OP's mum's autonomy shouldn't be trampled over but I also agree it's wise to be cautious here. Personally I'd engineer a friendly chat with "Anne" face to face and try to see how the land lies; as a PP says, if she's genuine she'll probably welcome this and if she isn't things might become clearer

Anne should not be helping with the "admin". It screams scam to me.

Id be suspicious in your place. CCTV cameras I definitely agree with, but Id be taking over the admin etc stuff again. Its private family business and at an advanced age your mum is vulnerable

.

"I also think some hidden cameras are a good idea." and illegal.

Some of the responses on here are truly bear in mind that you are all going to be in this position in maybe 20/30 years time. In fact how would you feel if your dh's felt you were being scammed and hid cameras in your homes? Your sisters? Your children? Your parents? That would be ok would it? Think about what you're suggesting here and imagine yourself in the same position, being spied on because your family feel you can't be trusted.

The misinformation in this thread about POA is jaw-dropping.

OP, you are absolutely right to be on guard for your mother.

There is a tipping point with ageing where the older person needs someone else to keep a weather eye on things for them, even though they are still competent to make decisions for themselves. It is rather like advising your teenager and helping them not fall prey to scammers through not knowing enough.

The worrying part for me is that you have asked Anne to leave the shopping and finances for you to handle, and she is refusing to step away from those jobs, albeit with very persuasive defence of how much she likes doing it and it's no trouble. Thing is though, that's not the point is it? She is choosing to disregard a perfectly reasonable request from you, and that should make you suspicious of her motives.

She is perfectly free to go hang out with your mother, but just not do regular shopping and financial stuff, because as a loving daughter, that's your true, you want to do it and you are doing it. She doesn't get to hijack that role from you.

Maybe you should tell your mum that you need to protect Anne, too - I would hate to be in her position and find my honesty doubted.

I do think everyone should set up a poa when they turn 60 which is what did

OP this all wrong. A genuine person wouldn't be involved in bringing DM food regularly and doing her finances. If they love each other's company then getting together would be enough, surely?

Scammers are clever, they always 'seem' very nice and are practiced at befriending the elderly. This happened to my GM and the 'friend' got her claws in very deeply before we discovered it. This person made GM sell her house for a smaller one and the money difference dissapeared.

Your problem will be helping DM understand that you are not trying to hurt her by limiting Anne's involvement in DM's private life. Just the opposite.

Find out how far this has gone, and make a regular appointment to help DM with her correspondence, perhaps keeping papers away from prying eyes. Ring Anne and tell her once you have done it.

A scamcam is not a bad idea, they have exposed many a callous carer and is for DM's safety. I wish my GM had had one, it ended that she could not pay for home care and died in hospital.

Please be wary rather than laissez-faire

Haven't RTFT in full but alarm bells rang for me straight away and I speak from bitter, bitter experience with my DF. Situation was exactly the same and I was so keen to give her the benefit of the doubt and him his independence I let it all go - and guess what? She fleeced him.

Started in exactly the same way, taking over things I had previously been doing for him. If she is genuine and they are enjoying a lovely friendship, you don't have to break it up and she won't mind if you say 'I think it would be better if we kept (these things) within the family' - in fact, if she's genuine, she'd probably prefer it. Please do just keep an eye. PM me if you like.

publicguardian.blog.gov.uk

This outlines the lasting/enduring power of attorneys.

I used to do these for clients where I worked and from what I recall, you need to have a signatory of someone who has the authority to explain the forms to you (lawyer, accountant etc). It's very straightforward and people often got them drawn up the same time as their Wills.

POA at 60! You can't even get a state pension until you're 66!

I also know someone whose mum was tricked by an apparently helpful and friendly neighbour. Same stuff about doing the shopping and so on. Gave neighbour thousands of pounds. Be very careful. Tell Anne she is to stop doing the shopping and admin.