To feel uncomfortable about this

[user1471558723]

My mother is in her late eighties, she lives alone and looks after herself. I live some distance away but speak to her most days. I do her shopping and visit her once or twice a week.
She attends a craft club once a week, it's attended by people of all ages.
A much younger lady began dropping my mother at home each week, this then developed into her offering to collect my mother. This lady let's call her Anne is very kind she has according to my mother an unsupportive partner, a large family, primary school age children, grown up children and grand children. She looks after them all and does not have a job. Anne also looks after her elderly father who has terminal cancer.
I was delighted when Anne offered my mother regular lifts to and from the craft club. But now the friendship has intensified. Anne is visiting my mum several times a week. She is "helping" my mother with all the administrative work that I used to do, sorting out insurance etc.
I've told my mum there is no need to involve Anne in all this as she obviously is a woman with commitments of her own. My mum insists Anne wants to do everything she does.
My mum is very well placed financially and reading between the lines life has not been so kind to Anne.
I would really like to think that Anne is a lovely lady who has found a friendship with my mother despite the 45 year age gap. I'm just a bit uncertain and would value other people's opinions.

Penggwn
I was being facetious suggesting you were Anne as you well know. Mainly because I couldn't understand your ludicrous opinions which disagree with anything that helps and looks out for this elderly woman.
Oh and i thought you sounded like a twat too

I did POA for my own father about 3 years ago and I did it on line. You do need signatures from people that know her, but it is easy to do. I don't want to scare you, but my dad , who has now passed away had a private carer, through a carer company, staying overnight 5 days a week with him. she had a husband. She started to become his 'friend' got involved with his shopping delivery ( I used to order on line for him, but she took over). It ended up too, with him allowing her access to his on line accounts. I once visited him and asked him where his card was, as he used to keep it in a safety box and alarm bells rang when he said she had it. He gave her his bank card and Pin and she was drawing out cash for him. I had access to his building society accounts on line and she changed the password. He wouldn't hear a bad word about her. Because I had POA I managed to ask the building society if I could see his accounts. In the space of three months, she had taken just under £4K of his money, every morning, after she left his home. My dad was bed bound, but I couldn't prove it was her that took the money, it could have been me, or anyone. The building society put an immediate freeze on his account. The next day, she became 'ill' and seemed to disappear completely, presumably at that point she realised his account had been frozen and got worried, . I tried to make contact but I wasn't able and three months later, my dad died. She seemed like a very nice person at the time before this happened....but I don't trust many people now because if this and you need to not trust her, I'm sorry to say.

I think I would try and speak to Anne. She might be helping out of the goodness of her heart, and might just enjoy the peace and quiet (and company) the time with your mum gives her. If you approach it right you should be able to either set your mind at rest or confirm your fears without upsetting your mum. I used to visit an elderly lady when I was a teenager simply because she was fun to spend time with.

OP, how did you get on?

I think you are being very sensible by trying to protect your Mum.

As our families get older they also become too trusting - from my very recent and bitter experience the same happened to my Mum.......and it was my brother who drained her bank accounts. She died in April and although it was crystal clear to myself and my other brother what had been going on, it has been impossible to prove/resolve and Mum isn't here to challenge him now.
For us, it wasn't about wanting our share of her estate, it was the sheer horror that one of her sons could do this to his own mother and he's got away with it. I can't speak to him (can barely look at him tbh) and I hope this sits very heavy with him in years to come.
I wish you all the best and hope you find a resolution.

YANBU, I would be very concerned in your place. One of the techniques that con artists use is hard luck stories, like Anne's difficult family stuff. Let's hope Anne is a kind, well-meaning person, and I'm a suspicious cynic. But how the hell does she have time to ferry your mother around and sort out her finances when she's got so much else on her plate? I agree with others that your mother is an autonomous adult and can make her own decisions about her money and friendships, but it sounds like you have a good relationship, and perhaps you could tell her you're a bit uncomfortable about Anne getting involved in her finances. Do you have any siblings? What do they think?

Penggwn, name change fail there.

It depends. If the person I was helping had told me they wanted my help rather than their child's help, yes, I would. It is their decision

Ok, but then you would say to the child that their mum specifically asked you to do it.

I understand what you're saying in this thread, but unfortunately when people get old, even if they seem ok mentally, they start to lose their reasoning. Just read the tens of posts on this thread alone of the people who have fallen for this scam. Often if you try to bring this up, they get defensive, because they don't want to admit that they're vulnerable. It can be very difficult to get hard evidence.

One of the things l have noticed as my MiL and my Mum aged, was inflexibility of thought. They would get an idea and no matter how incredulous, become unable to see any other point of view....maybe it was a fear of loss of power, independence, l dont know. They would repeat these thoughts or feelings as if facts, and they would become their truth. I suppose my point is tread carefully and with POA, stress it only kicks in if your mum becomes incapable. Like a safety net. Meanwhile there is no reason for the friend to have any in depth financial knowledge -as much to protect her as anything else.

I would like to urge you to do the Power of attorney as soon as you can Op. my dad was of very sound mind and as his daughter, you can apply for it on line as I did. He had to sign, but at that time was happy to do so, as he was preparing for a time when he may not have been able to manage, It's all on line through a gov.uk link. You do have to have access to a printer. Do not be swayed by some people on here who think that you are over reacting as they clearly have not been this position. There are a lot of posters on here who have though, as you can see.

if their child said you didn't need to help with the shopping and finances because they do it, would you brush them off, like Anne has?

If the person I was helping had told me they wanted my help rather than their child's help, yes, I would. It is their decision

But is that wise, Pengggwn? It's perfectly true that some families can be horrid, but by the same token some seniors can be difficult and manipulative

Given that few of us can be certain of the whole story, isn't it better in such a situation to avoid getting embroiled, step away and direct them to professional help if it seems indicated?

Wow, been here myself op. In my dm's case it was a freelance hairdresser. My dm was a difficult lady and my concerns had to be broached very carefully and even then she became very angry with me. Before long, hairdresser's daughter was now the cleaner for my mum both taking money from her. It was clear there was little cleaning going on because I went in afterwards and had to do the same job. Before long, photos began appearing in the living room of the daughter as though she was replacing family.

DM's bank manager actually phoned me expressing concerns about the large amounts of cash she was taking out. I know this is strictly a breach of confidentiality but at least he cared. After he called, I went round to see mum and where she kept her money, well there was not a penny left out of a £400 withdrawal.

I did ring ss but they said there was no proof at all and as they were sending care workers in twice a day, then they would also be in the frame. They had been going for two years with no issues and the staff where the same.

When dm went into a care home, we didn't see them for dust of course.

I ended up falling out with my mum over these horrible people and I wish I had handled it differently but I felt completely powerless. I still feel guilt five years after her death.

I would arrange to go round when Anne is there and get a feel for her. It also lets her know that you have your eye on things. The red flag here is her telling your dm about her family issues and more importantly the administrative work she is doing which gives her an opening and insight into your mother's finances. Go with your gut instinct, it is rarely wrong.

It is sad to be suspicious of someone's kindness but there are sadly very few completely altruistic people.

I was a care manager and very sadly occasionally came across workers stealing from clients. The saddest thing I used to hear was that if they had known they were short of money, they would have happily given it to them. I suspect Anne may be short of money soon.

I've just realised that it wasn't last night OP was planning to speak with her mum, but Wednesday night

I hope it went okay for them both

I'm sorry, but i would be suspicious of Anne and would ask her to leave the admin paperwork to you.

elsieMc I couldn't agree with you more. Before my father was fleeced by a carer who stayed with him overnight, he was also fleeced by two carers from a well known care agency, who 'borrowed' money from him and who he gave large cash presents to careers as well and they accepted them. I'd like to add, he was always of very sound mind, but naive and trusting and liked the ladies....his downfall.

I am sorry I have not replied sooner, I went to stay with my mum and she does not have wifi.
Firstly, thank you all for sharing your stories. What a mine field this is, and it's so sad that so many people are duped by unscrupulous "friends".
I have found everyone's advice helpful.
Treacle you have guessed my mums character exactly.
I have agreed with my mum that we shall arrange for POA. Apparently she has been thinking about this for some time. She also suggested making me a signatory on her bank and building society accounts, in case she is ever incapacitated.
With regards to Anne I have to tread very carefully. My mum seems totally inthral to Anne. She does not want me to encroach on her friendship with Anne in any way. When I suggested meeting Anne my mum was very dismissive. She can be quite possessive about people. I know her neighbour who also gardens for my mum and she dislikes me chatting to him. Probably because he jokes about my mum and alludes to her as Her Ladyship and "She Who Must Be Obeyed" all said tongue in cheek of course!
Thanks to you all I have made progress. The jury is still out on the case of Anne.
I will keep a close eye on the situation.
I will keep you posted if there are any further developments. It has been really uplifting to have so many people take the time to help me. There may be a lot of bad eggs out there exploiting the elderly but this thread has also shown what a lot of good, genuine people there are who take the trouble to post.

OP, it sounds like some progress, but if you have any details for Anne, I'd still try some discreet checking on her if you are able to.

Really pleased for you, OP - there's some good stuff in there In particular I'm glad about you being put on your mum's bank accounts and wonder if you could include internet access on that, to keep an instant eye on things? The POA is good too, and it's even better that she's entirely on board with both these things

I'd be a bit more concerned about the "in thrall" bit. Even if she can be possessive around people and dislikes you speaking to the neighbour too, I'd still worry that "Anne" could take advantage of her reluctance for you to meet (which does sound odd to be honest)

Still, at least having more access to the financial info should help in keeping a closer watch ...

"She does not want me to encroach on her friendship with Anne in any way. "

Fair point-so why not let you continue to do what you did so that she can just be friends with Anne with no blurring at all by Anne helping out?

Is Anne being friends dependent on her being allowed to give your mum the help that she chooses?

Regarding being kept away from Anna and the gardener, you can always drop in when you know they are going to be there.

DM's reason for divide and rule may come from her side too if she has a bit of whinge about you now and then to them, and doesn't want you to hear it back.

Personally if it were my mother, I would be approaching 'Anne' and thanking her for her kindness, but then telling her that any financial or personal issues will be dealt with by the family, namely YOU. Some people do tend to take over and like to be in control. Maybe you could sit with your mom and tell her you would feel alot better if she allowed you to deal with financial issues.

I would also make a point of meeting this woman and getting details of contact, just to be on the safe side

Good Luck

We were in a similar position in that we started helping our elderly neighbour whose son lived in Dubai. We did not get involved with financial matters but we did drive him to bank and he did disclose stuff to us and would give us and the DC money at Xmas and birthdays. He was just the most fantastic person and we grew to love him but were aware of how it might look (he was early 90s) so I got his sons email address and wrote to let him know the situation and that we were genuinely just enjoying his friendship - son emailed back to say he slept easier at night knowing his dad had us and we got a special mention at his funeral - so I guess I am.saying maybe Anne might feel like we did but she should get it out in the open so that it's all above board.

I would say to your mother that you would like to take her and Anne out for dinner as a thank you for the lifts to/from the craft club. Explain that as it's Christmas soon (it's always nearly me Christmas to me 🌲🌲🌲) you'd like to arrange it soon before places get too busy.
I would personally want to meet Anne and would very insistent with my mum that I met her!

I haven’t read the whole thread yet, but just wanted to advise caution. My mum had physical health problems, although mentally was fine as she was only in her 60s, but she ended up needing carers to help daily as I live a distance away. Anyway, one carer became friends with her and started visiting to help out, take mum out with her family etc. Myself and my aunt were suspicious of this but were assured all was fine, and I met the woman and she seemed okay.

Alas it turned out that actually this woman had been asking mum for money and even withdrawing money from her bank (mum had trusted her with her bank card when she was in hospital and wanted cash taking out). In the end the police were involved, the woman admitted everything and went to prison. It was awful and heartbreaking to see my mums trust broken so badly by someone she trusted. Obviously this is a rare occurrence and worst case scenario, but I would certainly be suspicious and cautious. Hopefully the lady is just kind and enjoys helping your mum of course

Probably because he jokes about my mum and alludes to her as Her Ladyship and "She Who Must Be Obeyed" all said tongue in cheek of course! Sounds like your DM has been in charge all of her life and now resents her weakening faculties. It is very hard for someone competent like this to admit that her child should take over a bit. My DF was like this. When I suggested that X y or z were taking advantage he got very angry and said he'd been an excellent judge of character all of his life.
After his death all the pigeons came home to roost. There was not major financial loss but lots of poor behaviour from people who should have been his friends. Be there and often OP. Good news about POA. It's not that people always set out to fleece others but when the opportunity arises some cannot resist.

User14
I hope things improve. I can only talk from my own experiences. My mum lived near me and l cared for her. Unfortunately because my mum is unhappy she began to hate where she lived, her neighbours and me. Encouraged by a family member she moved closer to them. She regretted it the day she left. Family member has now discovered how difficult caring can be. My poor mum now recognises how awfully she behaved but its too late. Its not easy for me to get to her. I have joint poa with the family member. All the very best.X