To feel uncomfortable about this

[user1471558723]

My mother is in her late eighties, she lives alone and looks after herself. I live some distance away but speak to her most days. I do her shopping and visit her once or twice a week.
She attends a craft club once a week, it's attended by people of all ages.
A much younger lady began dropping my mother at home each week, this then developed into her offering to collect my mother. This lady let's call her Anne is very kind she has according to my mother an unsupportive partner, a large family, primary school age children, grown up children and grand children. She looks after them all and does not have a job. Anne also looks after her elderly father who has terminal cancer.
I was delighted when Anne offered my mother regular lifts to and from the craft club. But now the friendship has intensified. Anne is visiting my mum several times a week. She is "helping" my mother with all the administrative work that I used to do, sorting out insurance etc.
I've told my mum there is no need to involve Anne in all this as she obviously is a woman with commitments of her own. My mum insists Anne wants to do everything she does.
My mum is very well placed financially and reading between the lines life has not been so kind to Anne.
I would really like to think that Anne is a lovely lady who has found a friendship with my mother despite the 45 year age gap. I'm just a bit uncertain and would value other people's opinions.

Surely any decent person would stay well away from "helping" with an older persons finances - to protect their own position so they don't look suspect.

Have you googled her name? Or do you know where she lives? She might very well be a genuinely lovely helpful person but you also need to go with what your gut is telling you. Spend more time in her company and see how you feel about her.

Oh my goodness me. This is really not good news and please put a stop to it right now. I have seen this happen too often police background) , "good" people wheedling their way into an older persons life for the wrong reasons. Please sit your mum down and make clear your concerns to her, and spell out to her why it must stop. You need to make it clear to Anne that her "assistance" is most definitely not needed and to cease doing it immediately. I would also contact your local constabulary and outline the situation for intelligence purposes ( it doesn't appear a crime has been committed yet). Maybe try and find out some things about Anne's background etc, there may be nothing and she is just a good citizen but equally she might not be. Whatever way don't let her handle any of your mums admin or finances. Good luck

It doesn't matter if Anne is genuine or not. You need to help your mum establish boundaries. It's not appropriate for Anne to be helping your mum with financial stuff.

I would speak with Anne and say to her that you are dealing with all of you mothers financial affairs. If she is a genuine person she will step away from it with no issues

Thing is, there's no guarantee this would work. It should do, but OP's already said that she spoke gently about doing these things herself, and got brushed off

Which sounds quite a big red flag, frankly

What do we think: that Anne will have the will changed, steal money and anything else of value,etc?

Yes! It happens all the time. The most telling sign is that Anne brushed off OP when she wanted to be with her mother.

These people are sociopathic and insidious. To all who believe that we are cynical: virtually everyone concerned has a story of theft and loss that happened to someone close. We are not speaking of a friend who keeps an eye on an elderly neighbor.
Anne is pushing the daughter out and crossing boundaries that are not her business.

When my father had trouble, one of the social workers told me that it is a common crime. This is not the time for tea and politeness. Everyone on MN would light torches and grab pitch forks if this mother were a child. Well, elderly people are just as vulnerable. They are lonely, alone, and easy prey bc their bodies are frail. Also, my father did not have dementia until the very last, but he had a kind heart which would have played into Anne's story.

I don't understand why there is any defense of Anne. She isn't a kindly neighbor; she is pushing out the dd and making herself a comfortable nest.

Thyme I did mine 2 years ago in 2015, it was straightforward if it's changed since then fair play but the forms aren't complicated and there is information you download on how to fill it out properly. We didn't need to pay for the services of a solicitor

Anne is 43 years old and has a large family. Her grandchildren must be quite young. I would wonder how she finds so much time for OP's mum.
She must live fairly close by if she's available to give lifts, do shopping etc. OP would be wise to do a bit of enquiring about Anne's circumstances and keep a close eye on mum without antagonising her.

It's very suspicious. I'm sorry you're right to be concerned.

You have no choice but to be very straight with your mother and explain your concerns and why allowing someone so much access is not wise or necessary. Ultimately she needs to make up her own mind, you can't force her to be more careful but hopefully she'll listen.

Try to find out exactly what she's been helping with so you can asses what sort of risk you mother has taken.

Do your research on Anne too and if you become really suspicious, call her out and ask her to back off from getting involved in your mother's financial matters.

POA needs to be set up while a person has capacity to choose. It doesn't come into affect until the person is unable to make decisions for themselves, no longer has capacity.

Like the previous poster, I really do wonder how Anne has enough time to do so much for your mother if she truly is as busy as she says she is. Have you or your mother met any of her family members? Do you have any proof other than Anne's word that her father is terminally ill? All this free time just doesn't add up to me.
I have two dsc who live with us part time and two dc, I am a stahm, i don't have grand children or an ill parent and I very much doubt even I could find the extra time to do for someone what Anne does for your mum.

A person does not have to have dementia to be very vulnerable. Some people are just very naive and over-trusting, and don't realise that scam artists can come across as very nice people who just want to help them. A neighbour of mine with no dementia - just hopelessly naive - was scammed out of a huge amount of money.

However, it can be extraordinarily difficult to deal with, since unless someone has been officially declared to lack capacity, the law takes the view that they are free to waste their money as they wish.

Go with your gut. If it feels like it's not right, there's probably something not right with it. Your mum's possible vulnerability is the most important thing.

OP, I can totally understand why you're concerned. I would be in the same circumstances. Nevertheless, I'd encourage you not to draw any conclusions at this point.

I am in my 30s, and there are three or four much elderly people whom I regularly visit. Over the years I've helped out variously with house and car insurance, tax returns, confusing forms about pensions, and more.

I'm careful with how I handle this - I want to be seen to be above board as well as genuinely having integrity so, for example, I give clear records of exactly what I've sorted out, I refuse to have direct access to bank accounts or cards, but insist that my elderly friends keep all control themselves.

But ultimately, I'm helping out, and I guess I would be able to con them a bit if I wanted to, because they trust me. But the key thing is, they're right to trust me. I wouldn't dream of abusing that trust. I hope the same might be true of your mother's friend.

The thing is, to those of you who help elderly neighbours out, if their child said you didn't need to help with the shopping and finances because they do it, would you brush them off, like Anne has? I don't think you would, would you?

That's what makes Anne's actions so suspicious.

Grandmother hasn't been "around in day and age of scammers.same thing happened to her.woman slowly gained trust,bank details.she then took literally everything.it killed us all.grandmother had no idea how clever trick scammers r in modern times.please be careful.

I was asked by local community organisation to help an older neighbour who was disabled, initially with her dogs medication which involved me visiting 3 times a day every day for more than a year. Inevitably I ended up doing all sorts of other jobs for her, including accessing bank accounts / sorting credit cards transfers / getting cash out for her and all sorts of personal admin. I did it for a couple of years; I had NO ulterior motives, she had no other family to help, so I did. Not everyone that helps / befriends an older person is in it to get their hands on money! And I did find a carer that WAS helping themselves to her money, and then a second DBS checked, officially employed through a registered care agency who also was stealing from her. Sometimes people are just there to help others

The alarm is bc Anne is pushing OP away. I do not understand why a loving daughter needs to step aside for a friend who is not even known to the rest of the family.

The elderly cannot replace their money or belongings. They can die from the stress of losing everything.

All of the Anne Fans: stop defending your gracious goodness please and at least give some credence to the heartbreak and experience advising caution.

Sometimes people are just there to help others; but too often they're chancers who, while helping others, will also help themselves.

It's not easy to tell the difference - if it were, scammers wouldn't get very far! But what DOES make sense is to be cautious, to be wary, and to try and get the OP's mum to establish boundaries, whereby "Anne" doesn't have direct access to bank account details, credit/debit cards or anything else that will allow her to drain the OP's mum's account.

If the OP says to her mum "Look, I can do all your insurance and bill paying online for you, we'll set it up together and then you won't need to worry about it, or worry "Anne" about it either" then that might be the safest way to go about it. Removes the opportunity for "Anne" to have ongoing access to the accounts and personal details. And of course, "Anne" must never have passwords to the online stuff.

It is also, at her age, a very good idea to get the POA sorted out before it becomes too late. Someone has already said on this thread that their elderly relative was about to be shipped off to a solicitor with her "friends", and that was only stopped in the nick of time - so talk to your mother about POA and help her understand that it's not about taking power away from her, it's about being able to make decisions for her when, and only when, she becomes unable to make those decisions by herself. It can be a hard conversation to have and often involves other health decisions (such as DNR choices) - but it's better to do it now while she's still able than to be stuck when she's not.

My Dad has EPOA for a couple of very old friends, who have no other relatives; and has had it for elderly relatives as well. He is 84 himself!

For everyone saying it isn't your business is delusional and I'd hate to be your relative

I think the visits are kind but do think she is overstepping the Mark by getting involved with anything financial! Id be very insistent with my mum that this stops and explain you're just safeguarding her. Id be aworried about Anne exploiting her.

My (late) MIL was also an extremely independent woman, lived alone and managed fine. However, she was being fleeced left, right and centre and none of us (her included) was aware of it. She was a lovely, trusting lady and sadly quite naive.

Be careful how you broach it OP i think the key here is to not show any distrust or dislike of Anne. We had a similar issue in our family, and my nana grew increasingly more protective of the friend and started believing her over family members who were genuinely trying to help. When power of attorney was brought up, she declined but obviously told the friend this conversation had taken place and the friend ended up being power of attorney.

She was of sound mind but got overwhelmed with the paperwork because her late husband used to do it and the family were just trying to make sure she wasn't being taken advantage of as the friend appeared from nowhere after her husband died. Eventually, after expensive things went missing from the house and the police got involved we managed to resolve the issue but by then there were monthly bank transfers for hundreds of pounds to the friend. By then the whole thing had sent
my nana into a real decline and she was no longer of sound mind. The friend claimed the money was a gift insisted upon by my nana - may well have been but i suspect manipulation was involved if this was the case - and so nobody could do anything.

It was never about the money for the family but we had promised my grandad we would look after her and were really worried about her being taken advantage of as she was so lovely and warm we knew it would ruin her and make her lose all confidence, which it did.

I would go out of my way to befriend anne if i could so she knows, if she is up to no good, that she's no flying under the radar anymore. Good luck!

Also cameras are definitely a no no, not only are you invading your mothers privacy, if anne is clever (and actually a scammer) you might not get conclusive proof anyway