SDs dressing inappropriately

[Winosaurus]

I originally posted this on the step-parent board but posting here for traffic.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but today this has reached a new peak.
My DP has to DDs 12 and 8, they dress so inappropriately I'm sometimes lost for words. They both are wear a full face of make-up and clothes that barely cover their bodies and I'm really struggling with this for several reasons.

1. People look at them constantly when we go out because of how revealing their clothes are and I'm worried it'll attract the wrong attention and potentially put them in danger - particularly as 12yo is getting older.
2. My DD7 now wants to copy them which is causing issues and uncomfortable conversations to come up as I obviously won't let her dress this way but I also don't want to be critical of SDs or their mother for allowing them to dress this way (she buys most of their clothes)
3. I honestly find it embarrassing. When we are out as a group/family people automatically assume I'm their mum and I've had women in particular make remarks about how they are dressed.

I've talked to DP about this and pointed out not only the inappropriateness of their overall looks but also how it could put them in danger. He agrees with me and will occasionally ask SD8 to remove her make-up but overall he doesn't seem to see how wrong it is. I am not being mean about the girls, they are lovely but it's getting to the point where it's making me uncomfortable to be on outings with them when they have their bottom cheeks hanging out of their shorts or transparent crop-tops on. How can I get my partner to see it objectively?

Op I'm 100% behind you in all you have said on this thread

I think the line "she is only their step mum" is massively offensive. So many children now have blended families and yes of course it's the child's biological parents who make crucial decisions, but to belittle the value and impact of a step parent feels very harsh. I am both a parent and step parent so I get the intricacies of it all, but the OP has the best intentions. It's such a tricky path to follow, but she seems to have the interests of the children at heart and should be supported

Clothes may not put you in danger, but they encourage age inappropriate behaviour - why would girls of this age want to wear provocative clothes.make up anyway? And what parent would think that it was ok?

I agree with OP - it is risky, for the older one in particular. Boys may think she is older than she is and she could get into a situation she can't handle.

And such sexualisation of children also allows paedophiles to justify their behaviour to themselves.

For those who seem to have been so overtaken by polical correctness, that they fail to understand anything else and have got all confused. Let me explain why we as a society have age appropriate clothing for children.

As adults we have responsibility for our children. To help them mature at an appropriate rate, to protect them from many things, inc members of our society, who may be not so kind, to ensure they do not behave or come across in a way that could have them dealing with situations they lack the maturity to deal with. To help them understand what is and is not appropriate behaviour or even dressing. Like why you don't go to an interview for an office job in your bikini, why you don't go to a funeral in ass baring shorts and how people react to inappropriate attire and how to can impact uou personally.

Dressing our children in a way that is age appropriate and is not what society universally sees as sexualised is part of that duty of care we have to them.

The op should absolutely step up, standing by whilst both parents fail these children is not ok. An eight year old girl with a face full of make up and her bare ass cheeks on display would concern every single responsible adult i know.

I'm guessing as well if the mother is buying this and buying spray tans - so actively enforcing it - you are not going to have much luck in changing her mind. I wonder if DP realises this and is reluctant to stop it because this will be so ingrained in the girls as being normal, it may be that they want to visit you both less, because they will see you as stricter.

No, clothes are not the reason people rape. But I do understand what the OP means about the DSD getting herself into situations she can't handle. I remember a friend of mine at 14 would dress much older, with full make up and did not look 14. She had a 17 year old boyfriend who she told was 16 and after a few weeks of dating they had sex. She didn't want to but didn't have the confidence to say no. Mum went in all guns blazing and this lad was genuinely mortified as he did think she was old enough. If people think these things don't happen, they are being naive.

I would have a serious word with DP and say if he is also unhappy with it, then you both need to set clear boundaries. And you need to be consistent.

madrid
Their clothes themselves may not endanger them but years of working with teens and pre teens has shown me that girls who dress in, as you put it, more trashily tend to end up in situations that they lack the emotional maturity for.
e.g. tending to attract friends who are older because they end up thinking friends their own age who aren't 'grown up' are babyish or immature.
They seem more likely to be dating younger (but I'm aware many teens date young)
They also, from my experience, tend to be the ones who choose to date older boys(E.g. 14 year olds with 16/17 year olds) and with that usually leads to older friendship groups, different experiences and different expectations in relationships including sex.
The sorts of boys (in my experience) who tend to go for older looking younger girls aren't usually respectful, are more often than not lads out for what they can get, tend to be unable to pull a girl their own age (usually because girls their own age think they're prats). Thry know the younger girl is feeling grown up for dating thrm and so they know they can pile the pressure on because deep down a 14/15 year old assumes that a 17/18 year old would probably have already had sex/want photos etc. The boys who go after these girls seem to be disproportionatly involved in risk taking or anti social behaviours too, and the girl could find themselves on the fringes of that.
Once in those aituations, the older boy gets a pat on the back whilst the younger girl gets a reputation as a slag etc. Other girls their own generally don't want to be associated with that reputation so it becomes difficult to nurture friendships out of the older crowd.

What's sad in all those situations is that it is the girls who are vulnerable and yet in my experience it is the girls who get the reputation, it's the girls whose suggestive photos get shared and its the girls who end up hurt the most.

The way they dress doesn't CAUSE any of these things, but if I was to draw generalisations then that's what i would sum up.

What if the girls had two sets of clothes and two sets of rules: one for when they are with mom, and one with they are with dad. You guys buy the clothes and shoes for while they are with you, and they stay there. Same for mom.

You and dad agree on rules about makeup that will apply to all children residing in your home.

When discussing this with the girls, you avoid saying anything negative about their mother, slut shaming etc. You present these rules in way that is positive rather than negative. Marmy in "Little Women" has an excellent speech on how she wants her daughters to be valued for their minds and character and not to think that their value lies in being decorative.

Also, being able to move and play is still important -- no heels except for dress up, only clothes that stay in place.

Ultimately, how they dress and wear make up will be up to them. It will just give them another option.

The look you describe is what we in America refer to as "hoochie mama."

Otherwise, I'm not sure your relationship will work. This issue will only get bigger as all your daughters move through the teen years.

I think you and your dh need to agree some 'house rules' for appropriate clothing. eg if you are out in public you wear trousers or a dress which are age-appropriate and cover your backside. No make up until you are 16. Take them out shopping for clothes to keep at yours if necessary.
Or as I would have said to DD. you 're not going out dressed like a slapper go put some clothes on.
Or as a loving father might say, your faces look much prettier without make-up, and I'd like you to dress like daughters I can be proud of, lets' go shopping.

It's not undermining their mum to have different standards.

I think all children regardless of sex should be discouraged from taking the speed lane out of their childhoods.

I'm not anti-makeup at all and don't think there is anything wrong with messing about and experimenting with different looks but applying a full face of it as part of an 8-year-olds daily routine is ludicrous.

What's the bloody rush?

I would say there is a feminist argument that they should be allowed to wear what the fuck they want without being oppressed by other people's perceptions

And if we were talking about an adult, or even a mature teenager, then I would agree with you. But do these kids even know or understand what other people's perceptions may be?

Put another way - if I go out in a short skirt and a low cut top, do I lose the right to complain about being catcalled by a bunch of chaps on a building site? No I don't. I should be able to go about my business, however I am dressed, free from harassment. But if I go out in a short skirt and a low cut top and I'm surprised by the whistles and catcalls? Then I'm being rather naive.

We have mum's house rules and dad's house rules. Here we eat vegetables and wear shoes that fit, and that have a flexible flat sole. We go to bed before 10pm. Wedon't watch age inappropriate television and we don't have screens in bed.

I don't give a shit what happens elsewhere, the rules are what they are in my house.

Clothes don't put you in danger.

Can we ever know that for sure? How could one prove that there are not specific rapists who will focus on people based on a particular dress style, due to some associations they have with it? Most rapists are not caught, or rapes reported after all, for the factors and motivations to all be recorded.

Even if things do not go as far as physical assault, do we know that there are not individuals who will be more likely to do a myriad of other things such as, say, wolf whistle, based on dress?

Leaving out all assaults of any kind, if someone thinks someone is older than they are they might act in ways that would be age-inappropriate.

The quote is If you feel your value lies in being merely decorative, I fear that someday you might find yourself believing that’s all that you really are. Time erodes all such beauty, but what it cannot diminish is the wonderful workings of your mind: Your humor, your kindness, and your moral courage. These are the things I cherish so in you. I so wish I could give my girls a more just world. But I know you’ll make it a better place.

Hoochie mama is dreadful though.

There are predatory men out there, I'm sure everyone agrees on that. Those predatory men will go for girls who appear easy targets. Young girls in oversexualised clothing will appear to be an easy target for a number of reasons, some of which have been listed by other posters. So yes, although the main problem is the men and the only way to stop any child being exploited is to go after these men, until the day they are all in prison/dead it makes sense for parents to try to protect their own children by not allowing an eight year old out in a full face of makeup etc.

Yanbu op.

nSnowsWife

*she is not old enough to consent but what if they think she is

Well just taking that bit apart, thanks to the statutory rape offence that will never stand up in court.*

For now. What about when ops sd is 13? If she looks older even by her own step-mum and dad's admission, it would not be unreasonable for others to assume she is too. Very grey territory and she will indeed be at risk.

yanbu! seeing kids in make -up makes me cringe. Let kids be kids, especially the 8yo.

Such bollocks on this thread. Is it ok for a child to go out with family in bra and knickers to the supermarket because 'she is not unsupervised'?

What do you want to teach your children - how to behave appropriately in various situations so that they can grow into normal adults who can interact with other adults, or that they can do what they want and it is everyone else's fault if they get judged or disadvantaged?

I am the owner of a 12 year old DD! It is hard work sometimes, but I have to parent her and guide her.

She would wear the skimpiest of shorts, the most cropped crop tops, the most full face of make up, including tiger stripes contouring, if I let her.

I do not let her. Yes, she has crop tops, but they are worn OVER vest tops! Yes she has shorts, but when they become as arse revealing as she would like them to be, they get thrown out!

She has make up, she is allowed to experiment with it, but if we go out, I attack her with the baby wipes to take it down to an acceptable level.

Your DP won't step up, so, as you are being judged as the 'mother' when you go out together, you need to sort this out, firmly but nicely. Maybe buy the girls some new, more age appropriate clothing, then let them wear their new clothes. Maybe offer to do their make up for them, face masks (the peel off type) first. Have some fun with it and them but do stick to your guns!!

I say this as someone who became a step mum to someone when she was 9 years old. I also have a DD who is 22, so have been through all this twice before going through it with DD2.

When I was step mum, my step daughter also had a mum with very blurred boundaries, but she soon learnt they were different at our house. Funnily enough, she gradually chose to spend more time with us until it was 4 nights with us, 3 with her mum, then when she was 15, she moved in with us totally. Children and teenagers actually feel safer with boundaries and rules!!

It's not undermining their mum to have different standards

Of course it is...!! Have you no idea how people think!!
Of course their mother will be offended by the message the clothes she has bought them are too trashy for your house.

What do you think she will say to the girls about that! The fallout from this is going to be massive.It is bound to cause conflict with the mother and resultant stress and unhappiness for the girls .

"only the stepmum". In many stepfamilies the stepparents are important and their views do count.

'In many stepfamilies the stepparents are important and their views do count.
they do not or should not override the parents views!

It's not undermining their mum to have different standards

Of course it is...!! Have you no idea how people think!!
Of course their mother will be offended by the message the clothes she has bought them are too trashy for your house

No it's not.

How many times do we see threads that go like this 'how do i speak to DC's dad because i want these rules but when they go to his he lets them stay up late, play older x box games, eat junk etc'. General consensus is 'you speak to him. He should raise his game. Etc'.

Yet here it is the mother who is being the irresponsible one and she's untouchable because she gave birth.

they do not or should not override the parents views!

Doesn't always mean the parents are right. This being a good example.

It is not mother V Father .It is mother& father Vs Someone with no parental responsibility!!

and appearance is a waaaay more personal and sensitive area than video games or junk food!