School and vegeterian

[Letstryagainshallwe]

Sorry rubbish title. I am vegeterian and so are my children (please I don't want to get into the rights and wrongs of this, they can make their own decision when they are older) my daughter came back from school telling me she had eaten sausages , I pulled her TA up about it today (she has asd) and was told they lost her card which specifies she's veggie. Aibu in thinking this is not acceptable!?

I was one of the people who spoke about the child's choice on the first page (before finding out she does not make choices as a typical 6 year old would) I'm not sure why this is being misrepresented on the thread-
I can't begin to imagine it's possible for a NT 6 year old to not be able to tell the difference in taste between dead animal flesh and vegetarian sausages, whether they've tasted mean before or not

The evolution argument is bollocks. We're not carnivores we're primates.

Even carnivores can be vegetarian - Giant Pandas anyone?

There is no biological or evolutionary need for humans to eat meat. The ability to consume and digest something does not confer a necessity to consume it.

Op yanbu as some pp have said the TA and school caterers really should know by this point. Wristbands are an excellent idea.

Ophelia- spot on - look at the uproar there was when horsemeat was found to be in some products. Many Meat eaters weren't happy to have it pointed out by us veggies that this was really not as bad as us being tricked into eating meat.

In addition to which something which IS relevant to the fact op's child has asd is that people with asd are more prone to bowel disease which we now know can be caused/exacerbated by red meat. So actually it COULD have made the child ill.

On the rare occasion since I became veggie that I have accidentally eaten meat or more likely meat products - eg gelatine, I've ended up with horrendous upset stomach.

Being veggie is JUST as valid a choice as eating meat.

Also several studies have shown that veggie diet is generally healthier. Veggies have lower rates of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, cancer, high blood pressure etc - even when presenting with other risk factors like obesity.

My dd was born to a veggie and meat eater. We decided she could have a mixed diet and decide herself when older. She's now 16 and eats a mixture still but mainly meat wise eats chicken and pork. She doesn't like taste of fish and beef tends to upset her stomach.

We have learnt in recent years that a diet high in red meat is unhealthy. Ditto processed meat. Some have found they don't tolerate quorn well so don't eat it. Everyone is different for a variety of reasons and that should be recognised and not ridiculed.

@Veterinari

"Even carnivores can be vegetarian"

Did the lack of logic when writing this hurt?

Bloody pandas. Taking over the world with their rabid reproduction. Thriving, aren't they!

We're much more closely related to chimps and bonobos. Both of which are omnivores.

Large animals with less need for intelligence are herbivores. Smarter and smaller animals tend to be omni/carnivores.

Of course, when you mix small and herbivorous you simply get failure.

YANBU

this is appalling and you need to make the school know that it is wildly unacceptable. My sons were vegan and only discovered now (they're now adults) that they were given milk throughout primary school despite me sending in letters every damn term. One of my son's skin was terrible for years and now I know why. It's shocking behaviour for a school to do this.

This is appalling. I'm veggie & my DS only eats chicken and fish, no red meats or pork. I would lose it if they fed him sausage.

Definitely complain. 'Losing a card' is not a good enough excuse!

Veterinari

🤣🤣🤣

"Despite its taxonomic classification as a carnivoran, the giant panda's diet is primarily herbivorous, consisting almost exclusively of bamboo.[46] However, the giant panda still has the digestive system of a carnivore, as well as carnivore-specific genes" from wikipedia
^(original source Earth's Changing Environment. Learn & Explore. Encyclopædia Britannica, Inc. 2010. p. 49. ISBN 1-61535-339-9)

I'm guessing that's what Veterinari meant.

Of course humans are omnivores, that doesn't mean we need to eat meat. It is a choice to do so.

Did you know that in Italy they are trying to get a law passed about stopping parents making their children vegan? Because of the damaging effects of such a diet? And I'm sure the vegetarians are well versed about the ethical dilemmas of dairy??

The attacks made on vegetarianism on these threads always follow the same predictable and tired pattern.

Veganism isn't vegetarianism. Yes most vegetarians are well versed in the ethical issues around dairy/eggs. What point are you trying to make about that?

shirtyQuerty

It's pretty clear that taxonomy is not your strong suit. Nice to see that it hasn't hindered your confidence in expressing your opinion though.

"Even carnivores can be vegetarian"

Did the lack of logic when writing this hurt?

Only if you don't understand the difference between a taxonomic group and dietary selection. Fortunately I do, so no, it didn't. Thanks for asking though

Bloody pandas. Taking over the world with their rabid reproduction. Thriving, aren't they!

Please do bowl me over with your in-depth and evidence-based argument for how vegetarianism influences reproductive rates. I'm all ears

We're much more closely related to chimps and bonobos. Both of which are omnivores.

I do have some zoology training which is why I'm aware that animal protein (primarily insects) forms only an infrequent and small part of chimpanzee diets (primarily adult males) and that the contribution of animal protein to bonobo diets is marginal. I'm not sure how the consumption of primarily insect protein by chimps and bonobos is solid evidence that humans NEED to eat meat but I'd be interested to hear your interpretation.

Large animals with less need for intelligence are herbivores. Smarter and smaller animals tend to be omni/carnivores.

You mean like gorillas and elephants? I hear they're quite bright actually. And grizzly bears and chimps consume no animal protein for much of the year and can survive perfectly well without animal protein - do you think their intelligence fluctuates with their dietary preferences?

Of course, when you mix small and herbivorous you simply get failure.

Yes well if we use reproduction as a measure of dietary success (as you did with pandas) then rabbits seem a bit of an exception to that unfounded opinion don't they?

I don't wish to be rude but if your intention is to demonstrate the role of meat consumption in intelligence, you're not especially convincing

I remember when I was at uni, being told chimps were vegetarian and reports of them hunting birds and monkeys were anomalies, not normal behaviour.
Looks like they will hunt and eat what meat they can get their hands on...

www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20150728-chimps-nearly-wiped-out-monkeys

Fuming!! I've just found out from reception that she has been eating fish all of last year!! Hope everyone is delighted. I am so upset

I can't begin to imagine it's possible for a NT 6 year old to not be able to tell the difference in taste between dead animal flesh and vegetarian sausages, whether they've tasted mean before or not

Completely and utterly wrong.

Many cheap meat products (eg sausage rolls/cheap sausages) are bulked up with exactly the same ingredients as veggie stuff.

Case in point.
DPs younger DD. Aged then about 7. Went to a kids party and ate 5 sausage rolls, having been told they were veggie. They were not.
She didn't notice the difference.
Why??
Because the texture, and taste, was almost exactly the same as the veggie version she was used to.
Having never eaten meat the incrediably subtle differences that a convert to vegetarianism might be able to spot were lost on her.

I suspect DS would be the same.

And I'm sure the vegetarians are well versed about the ethical dilemmas of dairy??

Yep, and I have drawn my own little line in the sand.
I actually eat a mainly vegan diet, but not exclusively, and everyone ele here is veggie.

You said earlier in the thread aout why you don't feed your kids dog for example. That is your cultural and ethical line in the sand.

Mine is in a different place, that's it.

And by the way the vegan/veggie arguement is an ancient tactic from people like you, I've heard it all a million times before. Why are you expecting veggies to be all fucking perfect in ethical decisions, when I don't expect the same from you??

Oh no @Letstryagainshallwe! Were they apologetic at all? Why on earth did they think fish would be acceptable? I think I'd ask for a chat with whoever is responsible and ask them how they intend to improve their procedures.

No! I said the school was incompetent and she told me my language was concerning! Oh to add for context please see my other post if needed about my children's dad she brought that up not sure why it is relevant?!

Veterinari

Absolutely spot on and rather amusing!

Just proves people really don't know what the fuck they are talking about really.

Especially love the idea that Small+Herbivore = Failure as a species.

We'll go tell that to the rabbits, many types of rodents, the many monkey species, and all the other animals currently taking over vast areas of the fucking globe that they are all failures as a species!

Fucking hell Letstry just seen the fish thing!!

What the actual fuck??

I'd be very concerned about their lack of understanding and care towards kids with specific dietry requirements.

Haven't read your other thread btw, so not sure what you mean but fucking hell.
I am outraged on your behalf!!

What the fuck is their reasoning?

My fathers child who I have nothig to do with was section and made some threads against me. Social services contacted me as the hospital contacted them as they were concerned. From advice on here it was advised I contact the school to make the aware of the situation and she brought that up?! Seriously how the hell do I complain about this. Due to her having asd I have had many meetings with the school before she even started and made them all aware and it's on her forms.

I think you need to carefully look up the complaints procedure and follow it to the letter. This is really serious.

Humans do make errors but they are supposed to do everything possible not to through proper procedures and normally feel awful if they got it wrong.

they are able to provide good cooked meals meeting a wide range of dietary requirements. No fuss. No packed lunches necessary.

The point isn't that schools cannot meet a range of dietary requirements, it's that mistakes do happen. As a one off (eg a tasting session), school staff will always ensure that no one eats anyone they shouldn't. But when you are talking about something that happens every day so the staff aren't specifically keeping it at the forefront of their minds with everything else that happens daily in school, you just cannot guarantee that something won't slip through the net. We have had kids who can't eat pork for religious reasons and have always just about caught the admin mistakes which mean they are put down for the wrong choice that day etc, but we have been very on the ball. It only takes one click of a button and staff are only human.

And in my experience children who have severe allergies always do bring in their own packed lunch, as their parents obviously understand that nothing is guaranteed and make that risk assessment. If it really is that important that your child only eats specifically what you.want them to then packed lunch is the way to go.

Having said that, I don't see how she was eating fish all last year if the school knew she was veggie?!

I don't know they wouldn't explain it to me. She couldn't even see why I was upset she was very blasé about it.

Idon't know they wouldn't explain it to me. She couldn't even see why I was upset she was very blasé about it.

Yes, that is unacceptable. If this had happened on my watch I would be mortified!

How would the reception know what she had been eating all year? Sorry I don't understand that.

YANBU to be pissed though, just don't kick off about it. You need to be very calm and follow the complaints procedure properly to have any effect and not be fobbed off as one of those parents

I would be upset to but schools do cock up, it was most likely an accident. Have a chat with them to get it sorted but don't blow up about it as that is sometimes counter productive and I am sure the TA's didn't mean it. to happen Unless of course it happens again in which case take it up a notch.

Ignore the knuckle dragging meat eaters trolling, their pre-frontal cortex hasn't developed very much.