Like newly weds with a newborn...jealous?!?

[Misstomrs]

One of my closest friends recently told me that her relationship with her husband was like newly weds after her DD was born. He was kind, considerate, offering to do things for her, did all the night feeds 10pm - 5am so she could sleep. It made them completely loved up to see how much they loved their DD.
My husband really struggled when our DS was born. I had a horrific birth and was in hospital for over a week with various things. At one point the midwife came and instructed my husband to take my son away for a few hours so I could rest. He refused. If he couldn't rest, then why should I. Where we got home he would not be alone with our DS. Wouldn't care for him without me there. If I asked him to do something he would say he needed the loo so would need me to be quick with shower etc. He has had counselling and there is no denying he has been patient with me physically as I have had major issues which I have posted about elsewhere. Normally my husband is he most considerate man so this was a completely unexpected situation and one I have really struggled with.
My friend is now planning a second pregnancy (our first were unexpectedly at the same time) and I feel bereft that because of how my husband behaved, in part, I don't feel able to even consider having another child. It was just so awful.
AIBU To think having a new baby isn't like being newlyweds for most people?

Ah OP. So sorry you went through this.

My previously very lovely DP went a bit peculiar after the birth of ds. In fact he turned into a bit of a cunt. Ds was very much wanted and planned for. 4 years nearly ttc. I has visions of that same newly wedded bliss. It was actually really, really awful. So much so that when ds was about 3 months old I told dp to fuck off and move out.

That was the wake up call he needed and he recognised how he had been. For us I think the dynamics had shifted so much he just couldn't cope. He was working away mon to Thursday night which was hard on me with a newborn and a 9 year dd from a previous relationship. Ds was bfing probably 18 hours a day, I had an elcs which went well but obviously still needed to be recovered from and I went from a confident, physically and mentally strong person to a post natal hormonal ball of tiredness.

Dp just couldn't cope. Hadn't bonded with ds. Felt put upon that he worked all week and had to help out on a weekend. I pointed out that it was his child too, he should love and care for me enough to help and to want to help and that going to work with 3 nights solid sleep was a fucking luxury.

He changed back. Acknowledged he had been a massive cunt. It took time. But he is an ideal dp these days. Ds is nearly 4 now. It took until ds was 1 probably.

It definetly put me off having another. I just don't know how we would cope. How I would cope with a toddler and a newborn.

But it sounds as though your dh has recovered and recognised what went wrong. Which is more than what some would.

The ops DH suffered from being a twat syndrome it sounds like to me.

Another one that seems to know better than medical professionals.

Conflicted on this one.

He has just recently looked after our DS, now 2, so I could go away for the weekend. I came home to a clean, tidy house, dinner prepared and a very happy DS.

Good. But that's not worthy of a medal, that's just the general minimum you'd expect. That's like praising him for doing the laundry, or taking the bins out. It's just stuff you do as a functional adult in a relationship. It's not noteworthy and it's the basic minimum you should expect.

He failed you when you needed him. Having a baby shows people's true colours. Regardless of how he felt after the birth, he was still responsible for his own behaviour and his behaviour meant you as the person who'd actually gone through the traumatic birth were left without support.

It was all about him, not you. And I honestly couldn't forgive that. And I wouldn't be putting myself in a position where he could do it again.

While your DH behaved awfully post birth, he went to a counsellor and sorted it out. I wouldn't expect anything less of anyone else and while the choice comments in the hospital grate, I'm not sure what others are expecting him to have done - he admitted his mistake and behaviour was bad and sought help. Aren't we supposed to forgive and honour the 'sickness and in health' bit? (Although this cuts both ways).

Post DSs birth my DP was okish. We were tired and I was in shock from the life changing event that had just happened. DP was good, he cooked and cleaned and did his fair share. We sniped at each other because we were sleep deprived but we recognised this early on and still have a mantra of 'be nice to each other' to remind us that it's not a competition and we're in this together.

I'm not sure about newlyweds, but my husband and I were a real team when we had our first baby. He parented her as much as I did when he wasn't at work and it bought a new level to our marriage.
Your husband has behaved poorly and I also wouldn't be considering a 2nd in your shoes.

Dads can suffer depression after the birth of a child but there are also the ones who used that as an excuse to act like a shit. I have/had one of these.

My DH was awful, so awful that I've lost all respect for him. He was moody, snappy & constantly moaned about DS (also CMPA baby) & other things I can't forgive, He let ME down when I needed him & blamed 'dad depression' but has done fuck all about it so the fact your DH has acknowledged & sought counselling is great.

I feel he ruined that amazing (& also difficult) time for me & for me the damage is done.

As another poster said having a baby definitely makes you realise who the selfish fuckers are that's for sure

This thread makes me quite sad. My partner and I have a baby and a child each from a previous relationship. He is good with the older 2, very kind, plays with them, takes them places etc. I feel he hasn't bonded with our baby as I thought he would. He seems to avoid holding him and playing with him when he can, sees him as a chore! He always says 'I can settle him better' etc but that is only true as I have had to learn and have had so much practise! If he is holding the baby and he cries, he passes him to me. If I refuse and say that he has to learn to do it, he says I am doing it to 'prove a point'. I haven't felt able to leave him with the baby for longer than an hour as I worry he won't comfort him/will panic if he is crying. Baby is very easy compared to a lot, mostly slept through from being 6 weeks, very happy, smiley etc (not bragging, just trying to show that he isn't actually hard work!). Anyway I am going round in circles, suppose I meant to say that after reading this I am wondering if he could use some help himself to bond with him. Maybe I should have started my own thread!

Oh wndoftether12 I'm so sorry. I would absolutely suggest your DH gets some counselling. It was a long road back with my DH but it made a huge difference to his wellbeing. The behaviour you're describing is exactly like my husband. I hope you get some resolution

I've experienced a small amount of what you did Op. My DH was coming out of depression when DS arrived and he wasnt prepared to the upheaval.
I also had a traumatic birth which I think affected him, although he won't admit just how much.
He also struggled with the fact I was giving my attention to someone else other than him (sad but true), and he didn't bond well at all.
We're expecting another and he keeps saying well the first 6 months will be shit but after that I know it gets better. Which is getting me down a bit.
I'm trying to get him to talk to my bump in an attempt to bond a bit more this time but he's not interested.
That being said, when our DS arrived he did everything round the house and really supported me, he was just not that keen on the baby.
If a midwife had told him I needed rest he would've taken my son in a heartbeat.

I would say newlyweds was overstating it for us. I had a horrible birth which was traumatic for me to go through and for OH to witness and was in hospital for a week afterwards.

OH was great with caring for me and baby DD. He did everything he could to help and would send me upstairs to sleep in bed at night for the couple of hours that DD would sleep in her Moses basket and he'd kip on the sofa to see to her when she woke the first week we were home. He'd normally have to come and get me as soon as she woke, but the thought was there and the few hours decent sleep I got did help massively. He'd then go to bed for a few hours in the morning when I got up - we were like shift workers the first few weeks!

However, we were both tired, a bit shellshocked and there were definitely times when we were snappy and cross with each other and found it really tough going, especially the first month or so. Definitely not behaving like newlyweds!

I think your OH sounds like he really struggled after you gave birth. Men sometimes do, just as we do. If he's not generally an arsehole who treats you badly, i'd maybe give him the benefit of the doubt and say he found it hard to cope and was maybe frightened of caring for a newborn without you there. He didn't deal with it well at all, and you deserved better but if you would like to have another baby and your relationship is otherwise good, could you sit down and discuss it? Tell him exactly how his behaviour made you feel and see what his reaction is? How is he as a Dad now, hands on or leaves everything to you?

It may be that with baby number 2, as he knows what he's doing now it'll be a completely different story.

Counseling doesn't cure a sociopath. Run away

Oh for gods sake he's not a sociopath! He's (from the OPs subsequent posts) a man who struggled horribly to deal with the trauma of birth and reacted really badly!

I'm glad he sought help OP. Maybe it would do you good to see someone too? Our DD didn't have CMPA but she did have awful silent reflux for months and it was bloody hard work.

All the people saying men can't get PND/PTSD - you're disgraceful. Post- birth mental health issues are not only applicable to women! Would any of you be saying awful things if the mother had been unwell and not wanting to look after her baby? Because that happens sadly sometimes. Any those women are mostly treated with respect and caring until they are better.

OP - The PANDAS Foundation have a specific Dad's support section on their website. He may find it helpful to see other Dads who have gone through the same as him.

OP, on reading your post I gasped. But then I thought about it a bit and if he had PTSD then his behaviour makes sense.

The fact that he went to get help says that he wasn't happy with the way he acted and he clearly realised he needed help. If this is the only time he has acted so selfishly and he's been a great husband before and since then don't take all the comments on board. I hate twatty men, I rarely make excuses for shit behaviour but working with people with PTSD myself I know what it can do to people and how people react so differently to similar traumas.

Ignore comments from people who think they know better than the counsellor. Ignore posters who want to convince you that your husband is nothing but an arsehole. I hate arsehole men as much as anyone else but I'm not seeing it here. It clearly went a lot deeper than that.

We don't actually know what happened with the OP's DH, though, so saying "he had depression, don't be mean to him" isn't any more accurate than "he didn't have depression, he's just a twat." We don't know.

The OP is the one here asking for thoughts/support, not her husband, so I don't see why the discussion has to be centre around whether Mumsnet is or isn't being appropriately thoughtful of her husband.

The OP is the one here asking for thoughts/support, not her husband, so I don't see why the discussion has to be centre around whether Mumsnet is or isn't being appropriately thoughtful of her husband.

Do you really think it is supportive to tell OP her husband is nothing but a twat, or in one case a sociopath? How the fuck is that being supportive?

I think it's more supportive to believe the OP when she says her husband has been great before and since then instead of trying to make her doubt herself. He got help, he knew there was a problem and since then they have had no issues.

People who are trying to convince her that her husband is an arsehole and he wasn't ill, he didn't have PSTD even though his counsellor thinks he did are far from being supportive.

We weren't lovely dovey as such but my husband was a superstar, took her for so i could rest/shower, did the cooking and cleaning, did plenty of nappy changes and her baths, we took turn with night feeds, one of us would get her up while the other made the bottle.
I'm so sorry you had a hard time and hopefully your both ok and recovering from it. You need to be sure he's over it before considering another baby as with 1 already you'd need the help

Do you really think it is supportive to tell OP her husband is nothing but a twat, or in one case a sociopath? How the fuck is that being supportive?

I didn't say it was. I said it was no more useful to her than telling her he had PTSD or PND or whatever else. We don't know what he had, he's not here, his counsellor's not here, we weren't there for the birth or the aftermath.

What we do know is that the OP's been upset by this. It's unfair to make the discussion all about her husband and how he feels, whatever you do or don't think of him. She went through the same traumatic birth he did, in a much more immediate way, and then had the extra trauma of a previously supportive partner acting terribly on top of that. She's the one who's here. This conversation really, really doesn't need to be about how her husband felt.

She went through the same traumatic birth he did, in a much more immediate way, and then had the extra trauma of a previously supportive partner acting terribly on top of that. She's the one who's here. This conversation really, really doesn't need to be about how her husband felt.

I think that's being wilfully dense. How her husband felt is the crux of the matter. PTSD doesn't always hit the person who appears to have most right to feel traumatised. Often it hits the one who was standing next to that person and witnessed something terrifying that made them feel helpless. It's the sense of a trapdoor having opened up in what you thought was solid ground. It can make you irritable, unreasonable, angry and yes, even cruel. PTSD is a bastard.

OP, I'm sorry you went through that, both of you. Try not to compare your experience to others who weren't dealing with the thugs you were. And if you can afford some maintenance counselling for him, or for both of you sometimes, it's a very good thing to do.

Things, not thugs!

I'm sorry I agree - fathers don't get PND. Yes they get reactive depression, yes they get PTSD. Yes these are horrible and deserve as much support and empathy as a mother with PND.

But - They don't get PND (part of which appears to be a biological or hormonal response to pregnancy and birth). They also don't get PMT no matter how closely involved they are with a woman's period!

For the record, I am a mental health professional. I think we are invalidating the desperation of PND by comparing it with reactive depression. Having a baby is a major life change, it's exhausting, it changes your identity and when this happens reactive depression is entirely understandable. But sometimes mums get PND when life and the baby appear perfect - sometimes it's purely a biological or hormonal response which the man (having not been pregnant) just doesn't experience.

Sorry I re-read my post and also didn't mean to invalidate reactive depression. They're both horrific. I think we just have to accept that they are different.

This conversation really, really doesn't need to be about how her husband felt.

Apart from the fact that us the crux of the issue.

@PigletWasPoohsFriend

Bet you would say my DH didn't either then. Glad you know better than professionals

Stop trying to make out I said something I never said.

I never said PND in men wasn't real, nor did I say PTSD wasn't. I was saying it doesn't sound like this is the case with the OP's husband, and he just sounds like a selfish tit. So stop with your cherry picking the bits of my posts that suit your agenda.

@AdalindSchade
Men don't get post natal depression fgs
As if his comment 'if she I can't get any rest then she can't either' was PND or PTSD! It was common or garden cuntery.

After having a baby a man's true mettle shows. The good ones will take over all the woman's normal responsibilities plus do their share with the baby, and provide emotional support. The shit ones will still expect the woman to do housework or will let the house turn into a pit or will sleep through feeds or will go out drinking or tell the woman to stop moaning etc... it's like a mirror held up to their true selves. How selfish a man have you got? Have a baby and you'll find out!

Absolutely agree with this post, except the bit about men don't get post natal depression. They do get a form of it, with the sleep deprivation and the massive upheaval of having a baby. But it's nothing like what the woman has. I do think the birth of a baby, and the time after it, can stress a man out yes. But I STILL don't think this is the case with the OP's man!

I think that is what some people are saying on here. It's not that they disbelieve the man can suffer too, just that this doesn't seem to be the case here. So according to what the OP's husband said, (if I can't rest, neither can you!') When exactly IS she meant to rest? Or is he of the mindset that all the baby stuff is her job? God help her if his stinking attitude continues.

Oh and the 'professionals' don't ALWAYS get it right, and they aren't ALWAYS right and everyone else wrong!

How her husband felt is the crux of the matter.

It is the crux of the matter for him and his counsellor. It is not the crux of the matter for how she felt and feels about this upsetting experience.

This is why it would be really really good for her to speak to a counsellor herself, without her husband. Even on here, the whole conversation is "your husband, your husband... your husband felt this way, your husband felt that way, your husband is a sociopath, your husband has PTSD." What she really needs is someone to go "well that's a shit thing you went through, how do you feel about it?", and nor have that conversation be first and foremost about his feelings.

@PigletWasPoohsFriend

Bet you would say my DH didn't either then. Glad you know better than professionals

Stop trying to make out I said something I never said.

I never said PND in men wasn't real, nor did I say PTSD wasn't. I was saying it doesn't sound like this is the case with the OP's husband, and he just sounds like a selfish tit. So stop with your cherry picking the bits of my posts that suit your agenda.

@AdalindSchade
Men don't get post natal depression fgs
As if his comment 'if she I can't get any rest then she can't either' was PND or PTSD! It was common or garden cuntery.

After having a baby a man's true mettle shows. The good ones will take over all the woman's normal responsibilities plus do their share with the baby, and provide emotional support. The shit ones will still expect the woman to do housework or will let the house turn into a pit or will sleep through feeds or will go out drinking or tell the woman to stop moaning etc... it's like a mirror held up to their true selves. How selfish a man have you got? Have a baby and you'll find out!

Absolutely agree with this post, except the bit about men don't get post natal depression. They do get a form of it, with the sleep deprivation and the massive upheaval of having a baby. But it's nothing like what the woman has. I do think the birth of a baby, and the time after it, can stress a man out yes. But I STILL don't think this is the case with the OP's man!

I think that is what some people are saying on here. It's not that they disbelieve the man can suffer too, just that this doesn't seem to be the case here. So according to what the OP's husband said, (if I can't rest, neither can you!') When exactly IS she meant to rest? Or is he of the mindset that all the baby stuff is her job? God help her if his stinking attitude continues.

Oh and the 'professionals' don't ALWAYS get it right, and they aren't ALWAYS right and everyone else wrong!