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Original poster

Is this unreasonable punishment from Teacher of 5 year old?

573 replies

sharond101 · 14/09/2017 21:52

DS is 5. He has never been in trouble before, not really but there was incident at school yesterday and a boy told him to pull down a little girl's pants which he did and she told the Teacher. He had his picture put on a dark cloud on the wall and given Time Out which meant yesterday and today he spent playtime in the class without adult supervision drawing pictures whilst the other children played outdoors. What has really annoyed me though is that when the Teacher returned after breaktime she took his picture off him and put it in the bin. He is very upset. Says he doesn't want to go to school and that she (teacher) shouts all the time.

OP posts:
HappyFeetAgain · 17/09/2017 18:48

Despicable thing your son did. You are more concerned that he missed playtime and his picture was thrown away?? You should be punishing him at home as well. Poor girl. Luckily at our schools he would have been thrown out for something like this.

larrygrylls · 17/09/2017 19:40

Continually amazed the way a 5 year old is perceived as virtually an adult here. He was set up by a bigger child. He needs an age appropriate sanction and then support and education.

Humiliation is never ever a part of education.

I would be asking the school for an explanation for the thrown away picture. The school is programming a school-refuser.

Totally unacceptable!

brasty · 17/09/2017 19:42

The OP did not say the other child was bigger.

cassyoooo · 17/09/2017 19:46

Your school would have thrown a five year old out after one incident. Really

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 17/09/2017 19:48

He was set up by a bigger child.

Please point out anywhere where the OP states the age and size of the child

Redsrule · 17/09/2017 19:48

What concerns me is the lack of concern from some posters of the little girl's feelings. Surely OP you are aware she is the victim not your DS?

BoneyBackJefferson · 17/09/2017 20:05

Redsrule
What concerns me is the lack of concern from some posters of the little girl's feelings.

This entirely, it is why so many children get away with bullying because their feelings come first.

larrygrylls · 17/09/2017 20:17

Does anyone know the little girl was upset or are you just projecting? My kids (admittedly boys) would probably just laugh.

The point is that an adult humiliated a child. Children have a right to be treated with respect by their teachers which means sanctions need to be proportionate, explained and part of the school's policy.

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/09/2017 20:20

Does anyone know the little girl was upset or are you just projecting?. That would be adults projecting how a 4 or barely 5 yo child feels.

Mittens1969 · 17/09/2017 20:25

Once again, we're back to the fact that all we know is what the OP heard from her 5 year old DS. Our imaginations and projecting have gone into overdrive.

But I can't imagine that DD2 would find it funny to have a boy at school pull her knickers down. Plus, I don't think he would have been punished like he was if the little girl hadn't been upset.

And no, we don't know that it was a bigger boy who told him to do it, I did ask the question because I've never heard of a 5 year old doing it.

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/09/2017 20:30

You don't think Mittens. But you don't know. This small boy, far closer to a baby than a teenager has been talked about abominably. I think that's no less important than what he did or didn't do or how the girl did or didn't react.

catkind · 17/09/2017 20:31

We should be concerned for both children's feelings. The girl needs to know that what happened to her was unacceptable and won't happen again. No one including OP has debated that. But the boy is the problem to be solved: what's the best way to ensure he never does anything so horrible again? Telling him he's worthless isn't it. Expelling or suspending a 5 yr old isn't it. He needs to be thinking about his behaviour, not "teacher is mean" - so lots of serious talk, tell parents so they can back up the lesson at home, enough punishment to make an impact on a 5 yr old. One missed break time while talking to the teacher about his behaviour, maybe making a sorry picture or card for the girl, would be about what I'd expect. It's not about vengeance or humiliation, it's about it not happening again.

HangingRock · 17/09/2017 20:34

Good post catkind

user789653241 · 17/09/2017 20:38

larrygrylls, your kids may just laugh, but not all the children are the same. Of course I am projecting, if it happened to my ds, he would never ever recover from that incident. I don't know how the girl from OP reacted, but that's the whole point. The person you really need to think about is the girl, not the OP's ds.

larrygrylls · 17/09/2017 20:41

Irvine,

How old is your son? Would he really 'never' recover from having his pants pulled down? Why?

More to the point, why can you not think about both children? How is humiliating the op's son helping the girl? Why not just cane him and be fine with it? He will definitely not do it again!

Weird thread....

Mittens1969 · 17/09/2017 20:45

@catkind, very good post. The most important thing is making sure it doesn't happen again. It probably was a case of acting out Horrid Henry, as a PP pointed out.

@Mummyoflittledragon, obviously I don't know, as I've said, all we know is what a 5 year old boy has said, there have been a lot of ridiculous statements on here.

We probably won't know what the teacher had to say as I think the OP won't be back, not surprisingly.

user789653241 · 17/09/2017 20:51

I think it's no point telling you why I think my ds would never recover from such a public humiliation, I don't think you would understand. And he is 9.
I pretty much lost interest of thinking about OP's ds when I read OP, and her only interest was how he felt. Not single mentioning of worry or care for the girl.

dogdaysareover · 17/09/2017 20:56

I have a 5 year old DS. If he had done this conversation would go: 'What you did was absolutely unacceptable. You know this because I have taught you about respecting other people's bodies. If someone did that to you, I would be so angry and you would be so upset. Your teacher was absolutely right to take your playtime away and to be honest, I am not really interested in what happened to your picture. Now, I am going to talk about what you will be missing out on at home, because your actions have upset me and your dad too. So you are on a PS4 ban for two days. You are now going to write a sorry card to the little girl who you have upset and you can draw a nice picture in that if you want.

brasty · 17/09/2017 20:58

You think it was just the boy acting out Horrid Henry?In spite of the fact that lots and lots of children read Horrid Henry, but this kind of behavior is rare?
And kids, and adults, talk about lots of things they would never actually do.

MelvinThePenguin · 17/09/2017 21:00

This happened to me as a primary school child. I was the victim and the perpetrators were a couple of girls in my class. I think I was about 7.

I remember the incident (not traumatised, this has just reminded me) and my DM talking to me about it, but she didn't throw her weight around. She would have wanted to know that the girls were spoken to, but she wouldn't have been happy at all if they'd been treated cruelly.

I'm not aware of any interaction between my DM and the girls' parents but it was definitely amicable as the girls still came to
my parties and I went to their houses.

I think a calm and measured approach is best for all at this age.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 17/09/2017 21:01

It probably was a case of acting out Horrid Henry

That's just excusing it. Many children watch Horrid Henry, but don't go around forcibly pulling girls pants down.

Mittens1969 · 17/09/2017 21:07

No I'm not excusing it; I've also said I have a DD who is that age and I know she would be very upset by it. I mean that it wasn't for sexual gratification, it was a little boy who thought he was playing. I'm also a SA survivor, so no, I'm not minimising.

I'm saying that WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!!! All we know is what a 5 year old has said and it's possibly not a very reliable account.

NannyOggsKnickers · 17/09/2017 21:11

So, the OP hasn't been back and that leads me to one of three conclusions;

  1. She called in to school. Found out the teachers version of events and they were so radically different to the story her son told that she isn't going to come on and update.

  2. She was expecting to have a lovely thread where she could stick the boot in to the teacher and vent. But it all went a bit wrong. Now she's got the sulks.

  3. That other thing that often happens on MN.

CantThinkOfAUserNameNotTaken · 17/09/2017 21:25

Definitely talk to the teacher and talk to your son about a) blindly doing what another says (which may not have happened, who as a child didn't once blame a 'friend' when in trouble) and b) upsetting and humiliating another child.

Bear in mind your son's descriptions may be incorrect. My nephew swore blind his picture was torn up and thrown away after a detention at around the same age. Like your son he'd drawn similar thing. Actually the picture had been put in the teachers drawer because he was meant to be drawing an apology card to the little boy he'd hurt, not himself wanting fun.

The school should have definitely informed you though so that you could have a firm discussion with your son and understand his punishment.

WhereTheFuckIsMyFuckingCoat · 17/09/2017 22:13

This thread is bonkers. Fucking batshit crazy bonkers. Are all the frothing, calling for a FIVE YEAR OLD to be excluded, chucked out, given a good thrashing 🙄 posters blatantly ignoring almost every teacher commenting? Saying that the punishment was disproportionate, that the boy should be taught what he did was wrong, and why, made to apologise, possibly be kept from playtime while supervised once. But that to drag it out over two breaks is counterproductive, and to purposely throw out his drawing (if indeed that is what did happen) is spiteful and not the actions of any half decent kindergarten teacher.

Oh and please for the love of fucking god can the stupid overused term snowflake be dropped? It's not big or clever and tends to show a lack of poster's intelligence when used in every bloody post. Unimaginative at best.

I'm not surprised that the op hasn't come back. Her child has been labelled 'the Brock Turner of 2027'! She herself has been labelled a bad parent. In the op's maybe second post she stated that had she been the little girls mum then she would have been angry, and clearly said that her son was in the wrong, but that's apparently not good enough.

Mumsnet is a great place sometimes. Other times not so much. Angry Mob mentality is ugly and unpleasant.