Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is this unreasonable punishment from Teacher of 5 year old?

573 replies

sharond101 · 14/09/2017 21:52

DS is 5. He has never been in trouble before, not really but there was incident at school yesterday and a boy told him to pull down a little girl's pants which he did and she told the Teacher. He had his picture put on a dark cloud on the wall and given Time Out which meant yesterday and today he spent playtime in the class without adult supervision drawing pictures whilst the other children played outdoors. What has really annoyed me though is that when the Teacher returned after breaktime she took his picture off him and put it in the bin. He is very upset. Says he doesn't want to go to school and that she (teacher) shouts all the time.

OP posts:
Shinyhappypeople78 · 17/09/2017 06:25

I am surprised that the teacher didn't talk to you about the incident. Our school would.
I can understand you not Coming back op but do wonder if you have spoken to the teacher.

CallMeDollFace · 17/09/2017 08:13

I think the cloud and the missing of playtime were very reasonable punishments. As others have said, actually being allowed to stay in and draw pictures is rather nice. Ok if he is reception I suppose, but too soft if year one.

Can't comment on the lack of supervision or the binning of the picture until OP actually has a conversation with the school about that. Both sound highly suspect to me.

When this has happened (very very rarely) in my year 2 class, I have pointed out to the children that if such an incident occurred amongst adults that the police would be involved. That seems to get the seriousness across.

OP should have been informed by school on the day though. Would have saved all the speculation and allowed OP to follow up at home that evening.

Mittens1969 · 17/09/2017 08:23

I do agree that we're not talking about normal behaviour for a 5 year old; that's why I wondered if the boy who told him to do it was older. And we don't know that he wasn't punished as well.

I also think he probably is in Y1, as it's very early in the school year, he would almost certainly be 4 if he was in Reception.

My DD2 is in Y1 and if she told me that something like this had happened I would really want to know what tha school was going to do about it. She's adopted and very clingy and I'd absolutely hate to think of this happening to her.

roundaboutthetown · 17/09/2017 09:16

Are these American/Australian/South African pants (ie trousers), or English pants? It would have to be a serious physical assault for the boy to have got access to the girl's knickers to pull down. Far easier to pull down elasticated trousers. The latter I have known to happen before - more often a boy doing it to another boy - but have never known of a reception child managing to get under a girl's skirt and pull her knickers down?!

RoboticSealpup · 17/09/2017 09:16

He told you this, did he? He's clearly trying to deflect from his appalling behaviour by making himself out to be the victim. Of course he is, he's five. But you're an adult and can surely see through it? If I were you my main concern would be to get him to think about how the girl must have felt.

CrumpettyTree · 17/09/2017 09:25

No roundabout it was knickers as posters have repeatedly referred to them as knickers and the op would have corrected them if it was trousers but hasn't

catkind · 17/09/2017 10:01

OP: He has only been at school 2 weeks
Think that's why most people are assuming reception.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 17/09/2017 10:02

@catkind OP was asked numerous times if that meant back at school so Y1 or started school as it could make a difference to the way people answered.

The OP never confirmed.

MaisyPops · 17/09/2017 10:10

piglet
With the best will in the world what the OP wanted was a thread like this:
'my lovely sweet DC did one thing wrong and look at how mean and nasty the teacher is'
MN: how outrageous! Teachers are nasty bulliea. You shouls go into school and speak to the head. What a way to dent his confidence back at school

And since that hasn't happened, I don't think she will be back.

catkind · 17/09/2017 10:10

That's not a phrasing I've ever heard used in Y1 (they'd say back at school if anything) and it is frequently used in R so surely we assume R. But of course OP is welcome to come back and correct.

Shinyhappypeople78 · 17/09/2017 10:25

He could easily be reception aged at 5.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 17/09/2017 10:28

He could easily be reception aged at 5.

Only if he's had a birthday in the past 2 weeks.

sadiemm2 · 17/09/2017 10:46

I've waded through a few pages, but can't be bothered to read on...
As a teacher I'd deal with this thus...
Children who did pants pulling down would have a severe talking to, explaining how it is not OK to pull pants, hair, cardigans or jumpers.... Hands are kept to ourselves, along with unkind words..referencing our class guidelines, which are explained and referred to over the first few weeks in school. I would say how little Jennifer was very upset by their actions and feeling very sad. They would miss a certain amount of playtime by having a Hand Hold... Ie having to hold the supervising adults hand whilst play went on around them. They would not miss ss an entire play session. I teach foundation stage, but if this was a year one child, I'd probably keep them in at playtime for a short while. The picture throwing away business is a red herring. If you are unhappy with how your child has been punished, see the teacher, don't bleat on here. Pulling pants down is not not necessarily sexually motivated but it's rather different than stealing hats and running off with them.... Even the youngest children are aware that pants are " naughty.. Teehee". Pants, poo, Willie's, bums etc are all sources of humour and delight in 5 year olds... Try not to be so precious.

mctat · 17/09/2017 14:06

A lot more comforted by Sadie's suggested response than the dark cloud approach, that's for sure!

'Imagine you were the parent of the girl and found out he was kept in for one break how would you feel, would that be enough?'

Why are people so obsessed with punishment and retribution when it comes to children? They are learning. It's exploring why/how it happened, education and prevention from doing it again that is key. It's so dangerous to use shame as a tool in dealing with something as sensitive as this.

Lethaldrizzle · 17/09/2017 14:12

The dark cloud thing sounds awful

larrygrylls · 17/09/2017 14:18

I think that there is s lot of projection of adult values in small children here.

Dark cloud: fine and appropriate.

Explanation and simple sanction: fine and appropriate.

Punishment lasting 2 days and further humiliation: definitely not fine or appropriate and verging on bullying.

School should have explained the issues to him in an age appropriate way, informed parents and left it at that.

mctat · 17/09/2017 14:36

I find the dark cloud thing very far from fine and appropriate. Just be straight with him for goodness sake!

Plop5 · 17/09/2017 14:44

Such a minor punishment for something that potentially have horrid long lasting effect on another child. The humiliation. Just awful.

The head should have asked you to immediately collect him and then he should have been excluded for a few days at least.

Plop5 · 17/09/2017 14:47

The girl and the other children have to see your son facing clear consequences. Yes to educating your child too. He is responsible for his own behaviour

mumindoghouse · 17/09/2017 15:01

OP doesn't challenge the cloud or having to stay in, and doesn't clearly challenge the unsupervised aspect of that. What upsets he is the picture in the bin.
What would upset me in all this is not being told about it on the day it happened by the teacher so I could reinforce with DS that his behaviour was unacceptable.
When my DS2 was in reception/Yr 1 he had issues where he would melt down, had stabbed other kids in the tummy with a pencil and had to be removed from the classroom. Through 2 parents evenings I asked about his behaviour and was told it was improving (from nursery which prompted my questions) only to be told about all these incidents 3 days before the end of the year.
I was horrified at what DS2 had been up to and not having been told as they happened had been powerless to help prevent them.
Once told we learned another child teased till my loose fuse child lost temper practically every day. So we were able to role play keeping your cool when teased, and set up a system that we'd be told by a note in the reading register of any more issues which we would sanction by banning son from school football club's next session. This worked brilliantly. We stuck to the ban (only happened twice) and we were able to work with the next year's teacher to reinforce good behaviour and could at home re-affirm DS2's sense of self worth after a teasing incident.
He's now a teen, and ok. But we could have nipped his unacceptable outbursts in the bud far sooner if only we'd known of them.

bullyingadvice2017 · 17/09/2017 15:19

I have a 5 year old in reception. I would back the school on this and he would be in trouble at home too.
I'm sure his confidence will be fine. Sounds like he was a bit over confident to be pulling someone's trousers down anyway.

FlandersRocks · 17/09/2017 15:33

He should have been excluded for a few days? A five year old, are you serious?

So much hysteria on this thread.

If I was called in because another dc had pulled my dcs pants down, I would hope that they had been talked to sternly to ensure they didn't do it again...and that's it.

The child is FIVE. Not a teenager, not a sexual deviant in the making. Five.

When my older dc were 4 and 6, I caught them in the bath having a willy sword-fight, both in fits of laughter. They knew that you don't touch someone else's privates but obviously a willy fight was fine as they weren't touching each other's private parts (with their hands). Perfectly logical to them.

You can't expect adult logic and behaviour from a five year old. If they do something silly, they need to be spoken to and learn that it's not ok, not excluded and punished 'severely'.

brasty · 17/09/2017 15:36

Willy sword fights are normal behavior. So are looking at a childs knickers, or I'll show you mine and you show me yours.
Pulling a girl's pants forcibly down, as many of us who have worked with young children have already said on this thread, is incredibly rare at 5 years old. It is overstepping a boundary that 5 year olds generally do understand and stick to.
Nobody is saying it is sexual. But it is an action that is designed to upset and humiliate another child. And should be taken seriously.

RightOnTheEdge · 17/09/2017 17:29

My ds is 5 and in reception. I saw him at lunchtime last week and his big sister said to me that him and his friend were talking about pulling people's pants down.

I had a very stern word with him about that being very wrong and him getting into trouble if he did. He replied "that's what Horrid Henry does"

So it's not necessarily a sinister sexual thing but I would still take it seriously.

Gottagetmoving · 17/09/2017 17:40

He is 5!!
Punishment is stupid. He just needed to be spoken to so that he understands it is not acceptable behaviour. Apologising to the girl and told that punishment would be applied if he ever did it again.