Is this unreasonable punishment from Teacher of 5 year old?

[sharond101]

DS is 5. He has never been in trouble before, not really but there was incident at school yesterday and a boy told him to pull down a little girl's pants which he did and she told the Teacher. He had his picture put on a dark cloud on the wall and given Time Out which meant yesterday and today he spent playtime in the class without adult supervision drawing pictures whilst the other children played outdoors. What has really annoyed me though is that when the Teacher returned after breaktime she took his picture off him and put it in the bin. He is very upset. Says he doesn't want to go to school and that she (teacher) shouts all the time.

If my child was sexually assaulted at school I would expect there to be serious consequences for the perpertrator regardless of age. I would also expect the parents to of the perpetrator to take it seriously and not make excuses for what had happened.
Children are children and do stupid things. But adults have a duty to make them aware of what is right and what is wrong.
There was avictim in this scenario and it was not OP's DS.

I don't take that seriously either! My DDs are very good at playing at being hard done by, for example 'no one played with me today' when they were alone for only a couple of minutes in reality.

It's possible the teacher didn't put his drawing in the bin at all, or if she did, she possibly said, 'you're not supposed to be drawing, you're being punished.'

My dd has just started school nursery and if she had come home telling me another child, girl or boy had pulled her pants down I would be furious and wanting more done about it than having to stay in at playtime.

That said the picture thing was off hand.

OP you need to sort your priorities out though and reinforce the message that this isn't in any way acceptable. Your worried about his confidence in
School, what about that poor girls confidence.

I think it's difficult for the mother of a daughter to be objective about this. If a little boy had pulled my DD's pants down in her first two weeks at school I would be extremely angry and upset and would want to be sure the school had taken steps to ensure it would never happen again.

After my son had been in school a term I went through the pants rule with him one evening, and he explained that lots of little boys took him "over the red line" in the playground and groped his genitals. Had been going on for weeks. He had no clue what the implications were. It turned out that the red line indicated an area beyond which kids could not be seen by any adults, and they were told this. Reception only play area.

The school did not take it terribly seriously. Which horrified my aunt, who as a retired primary head told me that was a disturbing failure of basic safeguarding on several levels, not least, where had the original initiator learned this behaviour?

My child was no less vulnerable than a girl. In fact given he's autistic he is less vulnerable than his sister. As a feminist, I do get fed up with the assumption that these assaults are worse for girls than boys. It's part of the patriarchy, this notion that men aren't ever victims of sexual abuse.

OP I am sorry your child was upset and I don't think this was handled well. The emphasis should have been on how upsetting this was for the little girl and how he would have felt in such a helpless and threatening situation. I can't see this has taught him much of use.

My goodness. I can't believe some of the comments here! I think this is being over sexualised. I'm sure if the boy told him to pull a boys trousers down he may have done that too. It is unacceptable behaviour yes. But I think humiliating him by putting his face in a dark cloud isn't the way to go. Discussing with him why it was wrong and making him understand that is important. Being inside while the kids are playing outside is an obvious punishment for him. And if any behaviour warrants that treatment then the behaviour needs to be discussed with the parent and possibly with both because the poor girls parents need to be reassured it won't happen again! The bin thing is just stupid and counterproductive.

Some of these responses are so militant. Why did the child feel like he needed to follow the other kids directions? Did he do it because he wanted to humiliate a girl by showing private parts or because he thought it was funny? Was this other kid punished too? I'm pretty sure it wasn't the former by a 5 year old who generally behaves well according to his mother (who so many of you are quick to judge).

This boy and girl go to the same school and maybe same class. Something needs to be done to ensure the girl feels safe and respected but punishment like that is not going to resolve such an issue.

The poster that said something along the lines of monitoring this boy over the next few years is a DH.

Maggie I agree completely thought I was completely alone!

sleeponeday I am horrified by that and would suspect that the boy who initiated that behavior had been sexually abused.

I've joined just to comment, after lurking for years. I've not read the entire thread, so I may replicate other postings.
Two boys pulled down my pants in a public space when I was six years old. I was devastated, ashamed, upset - you name it. I knew nothing about sex, was accustomed to my weekly bath being given by my lovely dad (it was the sixties) but I intrinsically knew that this was very, very wrong and different. It's nearly fifty years ago and I still remember my fear and outrage.
Children DO know it's wrong. Don't minimise this. Don't excuse it as childish innocence. He knew it was 'naughty'.
He can learn, and shall, if you recognise the importance of what he did and explain that everyone deserves respect.

I'm not sure why pulling another child's pants down would be less offensive if it was a boy instead of a girl? The boy is 5 not 3 or 1, he should have known that was absolutely inappropriate behaviour.

OP, you seem to be really minimising his behaviour here. If another child had deliberately punched your son in the face because they were egged on and your child was upset, what punishment would you expect the other child to get? A wagged finger and clap on the back as they head back out to play?

I'm really surprised that there are lots of posters saying that going on the black cloud is really harsh, what do you think it's to be used for, murder? He behaved awfully, of course there was a consequence. That's the whole point of the traffic light/rainbow+cloud system.

The picture thing is probably just your PFB not knowing yet that not all pictures are treasured by the recipient and being sharp enough (at 5) to notice where it ended up. The teacher probably gets 50+ pictures a day, she will be nice and smile and say thankyou for all of them but no one has a fridge big enough for all of them to be displayed!

I would also be really concerned that my child was behaving like this so early on, two weeks on and already being deliberately physically violent to other children is quite shocking. If you can tone down your PFB tendencies I would ask to speak to the teacher to discuss - if you are still concerned about PFBs doodle not being treasured forever vs physically humiliating another child then I would just leave it (sorry if this is harsh advice, but if you can't see that you will be "that" parent for the next 7 years)

I am always wary when a child says they did something they should not have, because another child of their age told them to. It is rarely true. Normally what it means is two children have talked about doing something naughty, and one of them has done it.

My ds1's friend was over on a play date and did this to my dd2. I was beyond upset and livid that he did this, I just told him never to do again. As a parent on the other side the school was 100% right and I suspect the
tale that has come back is for sympathy and possibly over exaggerated.

Leaving a child in a classroom without adult supervision contravenes safeguarding rules. This doesn't sound like it has been dealt with very well at all. I'd make an appointment to see the head. What your son was told to do and did was rather serious but they also need to deal with the boy who told him to do it

I think one playtime, supervised would have been plenty. Throwing picture in the bin does sound cruel. I've seen teachers doing it though, not out of malice but because they think it's just scribble or doodling. I've rescued many pictures from bins!

I am always wary when a child says they did something they should not have, because another child of their age told them to. It is rarely true
100% agree with this.
I used to say someone had told me to do something if I thought I was going to get into bad trouble when I was little

I am finding the use of the word "mistake" really quite worrying.

Whatever the OP's DS's thoughts about the action. he deliberately pulled down someone's pants.

It may not have been done with malicious intent, but lets not try and pass this off as a "mistake"

The child needs to be supervised carefully over the next few years to decrease the danger they will pose to women in future

You're off your rocker. I sincerely hope you don't have any sons.

Even if she's 'off her rocker' this will definitely have been logged as a safeguarding issue at the school.

Hope the other lad who told your DS to do the deed has also been reprimanded. Could well be the beginning of bullying.

OP has not confirmed what the teacher has said; only what her son has said.

The only facts OP is presenting is that her DS pulled down the pants of a little girl and she (quite understandably) became upset.

Everything else is speculation, and with 5 yr olds, who knows what the truth is?! My DS told his teacher that me and my DH were divorced (we're not!). Very imaginative and still is.

OP unhappy with punishment but no acknowledgement of gravity of what her son did. Who knows if he truly understood what he did was wrong but part of him knew as he was egged on by another child.

Ignoring this behaviour normalises it and I certainly don't want to turn the clocks back decades to protect mummies who cannot accept their child has done wrong.

He was naughty, he was punished (some say too harsh/some say ok, meh) and now move on. If you fixate on it so will your DS.

If it was my child I would care about the picture only in as much as I would be concerned that he is so focussed on himself and not the upset he caused to another child. As the parent I would be supporting the school and wanting to ensure he understood it was wrong. It's a humiliating thing he did, and agree with those who say this is not a typical behaviour in a 5 year old.

Agree with francesca, flying, nutty and three.
This was not a sex crime. It is unkind to say things or intimate things like that about a little boy learning to negotiate acceptable behaviour at school.

Both boys needed to be spoken to and made to apologize to little girl. The end. "Only 5yo doodles" is also unkind. I'm a professional artist; most 15 yo artwork is doodles also. But I respect everyone's artwork bc it is an expression of self and important to the artist.

He was upset and embarrassed about his bad behavior; his feelings count as well at this age. By being given the opportunity to apologize, all of the children would have been given good lessons in behavior. I realize that the little girl was innocent but I would appreciate an apology in this situation if I were her.

Kids this age do dumb stuff. I remember a little boy crawling under the divider in the bathroom. A stern warning was enough.

No it is not a sex crime but it is a nasty thing to do. OP should be focussing on her DS's behaviour. She should also have enough empathy to see, and point out to her DS, that the person who is also dreading school the next day will be the girl who he embarrassed. He is not the victim and should feel the shame because that is the way we learn empathy.

Oh for goodness sakes, so much hysteria on this thread.

The fact that the girl suffered an indignity does not mean the boy is without rights. We are talking about small children who are very new to school, cut him some slack.

OP it does seem to have been badly handled, your son should not be so anxious as to be afraid to return to school. I'd want to speak with the teacher to hear her take on it. He shouldn't have been left alone or to feel as though he'd been abandoned, and the drawing in the bin thing is pure bullying.

Unfortunately some teachers are mean bullies 😔

We are talking about small children who are very new to school, cut him some slack

Not necessarily.

They could by Y1. The OP never confirmed.

cut him some slack

Sorry there are some things that shouldn't be cut some slack.

Imagine you were the parent of the girl and found out he was kept in for one break how would you feel, would that be enough?

If this happened at my children's school I'd be hauled in and reminder of every school policy, would probably have to sign something to say I'm aware of policies etc.

This is quite serious and at 5 he should know that he cannot pull girls knickers down.

This poor girl will more than likely always remember this and if I were her parents I'd be livid.

My daughter had an issue in school with a boy kissing her. Started off just giving her a quick peck on the cheek, then the lips, then holding her face, then chasing her then it got even worse.

School couldn't get his parents in quick enough when I told them and quite right too!!