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AIBU?

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Original poster

Is this unreasonable punishment from Teacher of 5 year old?

573 replies

sharond101 · 14/09/2017 21:52

DS is 5. He has never been in trouble before, not really but there was incident at school yesterday and a boy told him to pull down a little girl's pants which he did and she told the Teacher. He had his picture put on a dark cloud on the wall and given Time Out which meant yesterday and today he spent playtime in the class without adult supervision drawing pictures whilst the other children played outdoors. What has really annoyed me though is that when the Teacher returned after breaktime she took his picture off him and put it in the bin. He is very upset. Says he doesn't want to go to school and that she (teacher) shouts all the time.

OP posts:
3EyedRaven · 15/09/2017 21:41

It kind of is sexual assault though.
Does intent matter? Or just the feelings of the victim?
Or would you tell the girl she to forget about it, as the boy didn't know what he was doing?
It's quite complicated, I'm not sure why I think to be honest, yes theyre young, but she should be safe in school.

catkind · 15/09/2017 22:05

No one's telling anyone to forget about it. Key thing is to make sure all the children involved know it was a seriously unacceptable thing to do. The girl too, so that she can feel safe that it's not going to happen again. On the flip side, even if the girl wasn't bothered at all, it wouldn't make what OP's son did any more acceptable.

Normally with small children the emphasis is on the learnings not on punishment. And consequences are in the moment so the child links them directly to their actions rather than transferring them to generalised "I don't want to go to school everyone hates me and thinks I'm awful". The aim isn't to make the perpetrator hurt as badly as the victim, it's to make sure they don't do it again.

coddiwomple · 15/09/2017 22:29

Coddi, do you really not see the difference between taking someone's underwear off without their consent vs taking someone's pudding?

I do see the difference SilverBirchTree, but I am not a 5 year old!

My kids do not see the difference at that age, they have been told about things, they listen, but they are still happy to run naked on a beach, they don't see the difference with a cuddle with a boy or a girl, or sleeping with a friend or with their parents. My 5 years old have no idea or concept of sex!

Why can't you read that no-one is agreeing with what the child did, and no-one is disagreeing with a punishment in principle. My issue is about making it a "sexual assault"! Can you honestly not see the difference between a 5 year old pulling down somebody's pants, and a 35 year old? This is seriously weird.

SilverBirchTree · 15/09/2017 22:57

Coddi, obviously there is a difference between a 35 year old doing so and a 5 year old. No one is calling for the kid to be convicted & jailed. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

We are calling for it to be taken seriously by his mother, who can lovingly discipline him and correct his behaviour now, not when it is too late.

Ignoring it or minimising it is what leads to adults and teens thinking they can do what they like to girls without consequence to themselves.

Understanding sex is irrelevant. Sexual assault is about power, control and humiliation. Bodily autonomy is about basic respect for each other. All things that should be taught to 5 year olds.

Frankly, if your kids don't understand that pulling down a girl's underwear at school is wrong then you have some parenting to do.

Dustbunny1900 · 15/09/2017 22:58

does the intent matter? Or just the feelings of the victim?

Really good/important point.

brasty · 15/09/2017 23:03

I used to work with young kids. I have never known a 5 year old boy to forcibly take down a girls' knickers. Of course he knew this was wrong. And if the girl had been my daughter, I would have been furious.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 15/09/2017 23:13

I've also worked with this age group brasty and while showing knickers and dropping pants happened occasionally I've never seen anything like this either. Since the girl was not a willing participant she would presumably have been trying to get away and it would have taken some doing and been quite traumatic.
I don't think we can comment on how the teacher has handled it until the op has come back to update. I think it's highly unlikely to be how it was reported to the op. A teachers who spitefully screws up work to upset 5yr olds would not be in a job for long. More likely it was thrown away in error and the boy saw it happen or saw it in the bin and was upset. Or was just upset because he felt guilty about what he's done which I would see as a positive thing.

Mittens1969 · 15/09/2017 23:21

Or did the teacher even know about it? Maybe the punishment was for something else? I'm just finding it very hard to swallowing that a teacher wouldn't have informed the mum of such a horrendous incident. It makes no sense. Maybe he thought the two connected but they weren't?

Just a thought - the DS said he was told to do this? Could it have been by an older boy? (Very unusual for a 5 year old.)

coddiwomple · 15/09/2017 23:23

Silver once again, you are completely and utterly missing the point.

Emilybrontescorsett · 15/09/2017 23:35

I work with children and this incident would have been electronically logged.

TrustingTrudie · 16/09/2017 10:45

Unfortunately as its a hen and stag this is where they all want to go.
Not my idea of fun either!

TrustingTrudie · 16/09/2017 10:46

Sorry posted on wrong thread
Has op been back??

Notreallyarsed · 16/09/2017 10:51

Nope, I don't think she liked the fact that we didn't all jump to her child's defence and called her on minimising his behaviour.

MrLovebucket · 16/09/2017 11:00

The OP would have spoken to the teacher by now I imagine/would hope.

If the situation played out the way her son reported then I think she would have been back to say so.

I get the feeling things weren't quite as described by her 5 year old.

guinea36 · 16/09/2017 12:26

I'm normally a great one for gentle discipline methods but in this case I cannot believe you are making excuses for your son and then are considering whining to the school.
I would be absolutely ashamed of any child of mind that did something so deliberately humiliating to a young girl. Five is certainly old enough to realise the consequences of his actions.
The memory of this will probably stick with her throughout primary school. Quite possibly she might be teased about it for years to come.
Your son has got away with this lightly. Strongly believe that you should also be disciplining him by taking away privileges like favourite TV programme etc at home as well.

ChelleDawg2020 · 16/09/2017 12:30

The offender needed harsher punishment, frankly they got off lightly here. Such behaviour is unacceptable in any context and would rightly lead an older offender to a serious criminal charge.

The child needs to be supervised carefully over the next few years to decrease the danger they will pose to women in future. If they learn they just get a "slap on the wrist" - which the punishment certainly was - then they will not learn the wrongs of their behaviour.

There are enough fully grown men out there who think that women are their sexual playthings, nobody needs another little monster developing into a fully-fledged one.

Mittens1969 · 16/09/2017 12:48

I'm wondering if maybe the teacher didn't tell the boy's mum because she found it embarrassing, especially if she's young? Because that is a serious mistake as they need to get her on board with teaching him that this behaviour isn't on.

Or are there safeguarding concerns with the family already?

Or else they did tell her and she conveniently forgot?

It's just not what's happened when my DDs have misbehaved in school. I'd be interested to hear what teachers make of it? Because it makes me wonder if this is fake, especially in view of the fact that we haven't heard from the OP.

Applesandpears56 · 16/09/2017 15:54

I'm another one wondering if the mum/op wasn't told because the teachers already are watching their family for safeguarding issues

Applesandpears56 · 16/09/2017 15:55

And/or if this was a troll

MrLovebucket · 16/09/2017 16:14

@Apples - the OP has been posting for quite a few years (yes I did an AS). Not a troll but possibly a bit PFB therefore believing everything her DS has said.

coddiwomple · 16/09/2017 16:28

Some posters really do scare me. I sincerely hope you do not have children, and more importantly you do not have boys.

The child needs to be supervised carefully over the next few years to decrease the danger they will pose to women in future.

We are talking about a 5 year old here... I am scared that a little boy who would have to listen to so much nonsense will grow up scared for life, and with such a twisted view of the world. It's horrific. You will create monsters.

caroline161 · 16/09/2017 16:32

Id have gone mad at my son and mad at the teacher that the punishment wasn't enough. This is absolutely unacceptable behaviour. What's your punishment going to be at home?

Mittens1969 · 16/09/2017 17:03

@caroline161, I absolutely agree with this. I was wondering whether the teacher was young and out of her depth and therefore didn't know know how to handle it. It should have led to a more serious sanction like suspension for a couple of days at the very least.

But I hope that if he was egged on by other boys (maybe older?), that they got into trouble too.

What happened, OP?

CheesecakeAddict · 16/09/2017 17:37

I don't agree with throwing the picture in the bin, but then if I had been the teacher he wouldn't have been allowed to draw a picture. I completely agree with the teacher for keeping him in at break time; what he did was really wrong. And I can't see him being unsupervised, schools are quite firm on that, even in secondary - maybe the teacher just nipped out to go to the toilet and grab a cup of tea so he was alone for a few minutes? I doubt it was the whole of break though.

38cody · 16/09/2017 17:41

Oh - and he wouldn't have been left u supervised / he may think he was unsupervised but he wasn't - I can guarantee that, it just wouldn't happen.

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