Is this unreasonable punishment from Teacher of 5 year old?

[sharond101]

DS is 5. He has never been in trouble before, not really but there was incident at school yesterday and a boy told him to pull down a little girl's pants which he did and she told the Teacher. He had his picture put on a dark cloud on the wall and given Time Out which meant yesterday and today he spent playtime in the class without adult supervision drawing pictures whilst the other children played outdoors. What has really annoyed me though is that when the Teacher returned after breaktime she took his picture off him and put it in the bin. He is very upset. Says he doesn't want to go to school and that she (teacher) shouts all the time.

No, not necessarily sexual but it was obviously a calculated action meant to cause humiliation and shame. My five year old nephew had it happen and he DID feel horribly embarrassed and cried the entire day. At five or six I was absolutely cognizant that private areas were private and would have felt incredibly ashamed and yes, violated and attacked and the humiliation would have been the most painful part. Not all five year olds are the same.
Not saying the ops five year old needs to be put in stocks and have eggs thrown at him or be beaten, he should have been explained how harmful it was in a way he could understand.

I've not been posting here regularly long so it's not an old chesnut for me. I'm very supportive of teachers. Just not ones who behave in an unacceptable manner.

Well there are currently 3 threads in active complaining about teachers.

I don't see any saying they are wonderful and can do no wrong.

Honestly this is why I despair sometimes. I'm a teacher and we use sanctions in school. We communicate any trouble to the parents at the end of the day which is usually met with "okay we'll talk some more about it at home" for the child to then project their own feelings - parent then does a complete turn around with full sympathy for the child and then suddenly no one has learnt a lesson. It's a weekly occurrence and drives me bonkers.

it was obviously a calculated action meant to cause humiliation and shame.
I don't think that's obvious at all. Many 5 yr olds have very little empathy. "Imagine if someone did that to you, how would you feel" is something you have to teach them.

That's my experience piglet.

There's a thread every week it seems where someone is pissed off at something and the usual folk pile in with their 'call the head'/"call ofted'/'you can't say anything bad about teachers around here' lines.

Where posters ask for measured advice but aren't hell bent on complaining, they get really good advice from teachers about how best to get it resolved/raise their issues.

When people go down the 'I'm.so pissed off at this nasty teacher who expected my child to follow rules/uniform' people then it's not worth anyone trying to disrupt the echo chamber.

Piglet is right tbh. Teachers, stepmothers and people who wear shoes in the house often seem to be the MN lepers

Of course they have little empathy! It's funny for them because it's an embarrassing humiliating thing to have happen.
And I agree, that is how it should be handled

You know what's really scary? All the parents on these threads saying a five year old doesn't understand this.

He did understand. So did the girl. That's why she felt very differently about this than if he had, say, taken her pencil out of her hand and ran off with it.

Stop minimising.

I think anyone binning a child's picture is unnecessary and spiteful. Be it a parent, teacher, brownie leader or mr flipping tumble.

Quite a few of the threads on here tonight very clearly show teachers and ta's behaving in a less than nice manner towards kids. Saying so does not mean I agree with every other teacher bashing thread posted you know.

My impression is that all these threads are stuffed full of posters supportive of the teachers involved. I rarely feel the need to post in support of teachers even though I generally am supportive, as anything I have to say along those lines has already been said 20 times over by the time I see a thread.

This one is an odd thread though, as far as I can tell it's been mostly teachers saying the punishment was OTT and other posters saying child deserves a thrashing etc.

@YorkieDorkie, but the curious thing about this, which actually doesn't ring true, is that the teacher didn't talk to the mum at the end of the day. Not good at all, if true, but I'm finding it hard to believe.

Where is the OP?

Where is the OP?

Good question tbh

So OPs fucked off because people have told her to be more concerned about her son pulling a girls knickers down, that his picture being thrown away.
Shocker.
Honestly, if my son told me he'd done this, his drawing would be the last of my worries...

Little empathy means they don't understand that the other child will feel humiliated. For example, one of DD's friends informed her she was making plans to kill DD. She didn't say that because she thought it was funny to scare DD, there was no malice in it at all, she didn't have the empathy to realise DD would be scared.

@Mittens1969 honestly. I should have guessed! My teachy senses are all off tonight.

Why else would it be funny to pull someone's pants down if it weren't an embarrassing thing to have done to you, if it weren't known to be a private area, and why whisper about it and get the other boy to do it? Ops son was maaaybe not aware of how hurtful it was but the other boy definitely did.

5 is old enough to understand that this was not acceptable, I have boys and girls, by this age they were fully aware that their body was private and so were other peoples.

If this had happened to any of my DC I would be very upset, it would take a very confident child to have not been affected in some way by having their pants pulled down in a playground, and children who have just started school are generally not that confident, this could have a massive affect on them, so instead of worrying about a picture in the bin consider how this little girl and her parents will be feeling and teach your son about boundaries, five is not to young

They don't have the maturity yet to think "how would I feel" (many adults don't either frankly) but that doesn't mean they don't know they aren't supposed to do it

5 yr olds think anything with bottoms, toilets or farts involved is funny I'm afraid.

X post, that was in answer to "why else would it be funny". I would hope they would know it's not allowed too.

Nope nope nope, OP. Fuck his picture and your attitude.

If he is NT, then 5 is old enough to know that other people's bodies are off limits, that underwear is private, and that he was doing something wrong.

If he doesn't understand that, then all the more bloody reason for him to be punished and educated now, not to have his mother minimise his nasty, bullying behaviour by fretting about his confidence and blaming another boy/the teacher/ whoever.

Today's 5 year old humiliating a girl without consequence in the playground is 2027's Brock Turner.

1/3 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Atttitudes towards women are formed from nursery school.

'Boys will be boys'
'But What was she wearing?'
'It's not his fault, he was drunk'
'The other boy suggested it'

Obviously a 5 year old isn't a sex offender, but OP needs to educate her son and correct his behaviour now, not teach him that he is entitled to feel confident and good, even when he's just violated someone else's body.

If OP has left the thread, I hope it's to apologise to the girl's parents and to discipline her son.

You know what's really scary? All the parents on these threads saying a five year old doesn't understand this.
He did understand. So did the girl. That's why she felt very differently about this than if he had, say, taken her pencil out of her hand and ran off with it.

You know the girl, do you?

Anyway, no one is saying it's an acceptable behaviour, or defending the children, but FFS, this has nothing to do with sexual assault, they could have just done the same prank to a boy. Yes, you teach your kids right and wrong, boys and girls, not to pull people's pants down, not to steal their pudding, not to be rude and mean not to throw your football in my glass kitchen window. and kids get punished when they are naughty. The over-reaction of some posters is very scary, violating somebody's body? Good lord, some people have issues, don't transfer them to your kids.

Coddi, do you really not see the difference between taking someone's underwear off without their consent vs taking someone's pudding?

Because if you don't then you are thicker than the average 5 year old.

People don't wake up on their 18th birthday and suddently possess attitudes that make them sex offenders. Those attitudes and entitlements develop throughout the course of their life. OP has an opportunity to educate her son, I suggest that she takes it.

It would probably have been more useful for the teacher to have a chat with him and explain why he shouldn't pull down other children's pants or do things other people tell him to. Staying in at playtime could have been part of it but with the teacher having a chat. Then he could have apologised to the little girl.

Getting tummy aches and being anxious about going back to school shows that he has had the punishment but he hasn't learned anything positive from it.

I hate the idea of names going onto dark clouds personally.