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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is this unreasonable punishment from Teacher of 5 year old?

573 replies

sharond101 · 14/09/2017 21:52

DS is 5. He has never been in trouble before, not really but there was incident at school yesterday and a boy told him to pull down a little girl's pants which he did and she told the Teacher. He had his picture put on a dark cloud on the wall and given Time Out which meant yesterday and today he spent playtime in the class without adult supervision drawing pictures whilst the other children played outdoors. What has really annoyed me though is that when the Teacher returned after breaktime she took his picture off him and put it in the bin. He is very upset. Says he doesn't want to go to school and that she (teacher) shouts all the time.

OP posts:
d270r0 · 15/09/2017 17:57

I think hes actually got off quite likely, if my son did that I would also impose consequences for it at home as well. Imagine what would happen if a man pulled down a womans pants in the workplace!
Saying that putting the picture in the bin is a bit mean. If I make kids write lines at school I only put them in the bin after they have left the room!

d270r0 · 15/09/2017 18:03

Lightly not likely!

coddiwomple · 15/09/2017 18:14

Am I missing something here? I am puzzled by the strong reactions from some posters. The kid is 5!

Of course, he should be punished, of course it's not acceptable behaviour, but is it such a big deal? At 5, my kids (both girls and boys) were or are proud of their Frozen/Batman pants, know not to show them in public but would be very proud to be seen with them. They don't know or realise the possible sexual aspect of everything, thank god. Of course you tell them that no one is allowed to touch them, but it's all a bit out of their understanding.

Imagine what would happen if a man pulled down a womans pants in the workplace! How on earth can you compare the behaviour of a grown-up with the behaviour of 5 year old! As the world gone mad?

Willow2017 · 15/09/2017 18:21

Imagine what would happen if a man pulled down a womans pants in the workplace!

You are a teacher yet you dont know the difference between a 5yr olds misteak and a sexual predator at work?

MaisyPops · 15/09/2017 18:22

MaisypopsJust curious, why would it be under safeguarding? a child pulling down another child's pants is not abuse from an adult. I would call it bulllying at worst, nothing more
Not safeguarding in terms of 'accuse the child of being a threat'.

It would be safeguarding because children not having boundaries with other children (or adults) can be a sign of abuse or trauma.

Obviously most situations like this it won't be, but it's not for us to decide if there is an issue or not. Our professional duty of care is to flag up concerns based on our training.

Someone in possession of all the information (usually either SLT or a child protection officer) then makes a decision about whether a referal is needed.

I do think safeguarding is a bit hysterical and over the top
And I've spent too many hours sat in safeguarding training where we are given updates from serious case reviews to not be arrogant enough to decide what is and isn't hysterical. It annoys me how many times I see on MN people being annoyed at staff doing their job regarding safeguarding.

Staff working with children are PROFESSIONALLY BOUND to raise concerns linked to training.

If it's a one off then it'll sit there and nothing will come of it. But if in 6 months time a child displays other behavioura that would start to generate a picture.

Would I rather spend 5 mins on my professional duty or find out later that the child was being harmed and I didn't pass it on?

.

Applesandpears56 · 15/09/2017 18:24

Your child behaved awfully and frankly should have been suspended for that behaviour. It's clear where he learns his bad, entitled behaviour from tho!

Willow2017 · 15/09/2017 18:26

I meant that she hadn't done so already

It happened on Wednesday yet she still hadn't spoken to the school when she posted this thread on Thursday evening.

So many people on this thread are not even bothering to read any of ops posts. Just piling in with criticism and accusations both to her and her son.

She didnt know asbout it until Thursday evening as nobody told her and she had to tease it out of her son to see what was bothering him on Thursday evening then posted on here at almost 10pm.

MaisyPops · 15/09/2017 18:27

Worth mentioning thay all the people who are outraged at the mention of safeguarding saying it brands him some kind of sex pest etc clearly have very limited knowledge of safeguarding or they wouldn't be saying that.

Safeguarding is about keeping people safe.

Children displaying certain behaviours can be a sign that they have been harmed.

So put another spin on it when people are saying it's ridiculous. If reporting a safeguarding concern is such a stupid thing to do, I assume you'd be happy for us to brush off a child displaying concerning behaviour that might show they've been harmed. After all, it's such a stupid hysterical rhing to do.

Willow2017 · 15/09/2017 18:29

Apple

He is 5 years old ffs suspended?

I suppose you never made a misteak in your life?

MrLovebucket · 15/09/2017 18:32

Willow If you were reading the thread you'd have seen FlyingGiraffe already pointed that out to me. You'd also have seen me acknowledge that and apologise to the OP.

MrLovebucket · 15/09/2017 18:32

^ Mistake, not misteak.

coddiwomple · 15/09/2017 18:36

It's not the professional taking things seriously that is worrying me, it's the reaction of posters on here! It's very scary.

Going from a 5 year to "sexual predator" in one sentence... wtf!

On a slightly different note: (and I hope no-one will send social services to my door) at 5, my kids sleep in my bed. They don't at 16. At 5, my kids happen to see me naked, we even have a bath together. Clearly not happening at 16.
What is frightening is demonising little boys.

It doesn't mean being naughty is acceptable, but at 5, I would expect parents to be punishing kids the same way for any unacceptable behaviour, pulling pants, painting someone's face or stealing a lunch box. Not being completely over the top by seeing sexual assault in 5 year old!

Applesandpears56 · 15/09/2017 18:37

If it was my daughter that had had her pants pulled down and suffered embarrassment she's humiliation - right at the start of school too when her first impressions of school are being formed then yes I would expect the boy to be suspended for a day or two. 5 is well old enough to know you don't go round pulling people's clothes down

annielouise · 15/09/2017 18:38

I agree with NewDaddie and those that have shown a bit of thought and measure in their response towards a young boy. Some very OTT and nasty reactions here. And no I'm not diminishing what he did.

The upshot is the boy feels punished but I don't think he really has connected that to he did, so that hasn't been effective. It sounds like he's been left with no sense of being able to make reparation. At 5!

The issue of the teacher chucking his work in the bin is a separate issue (you need to speak to the teacher to find out what her version is). Some are saying that's acceptable because of what he did. It really isn't. Whole situation could have been handled better by the teacher.

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/09/2017 18:41

pulling pants, painting someone's face or stealing a lunch box.

Completely different situations and in no way comparable

Starlight2345 · 15/09/2017 18:42

What I find concerning reading Op responses..Is it is all about how it effects DS..No concern about the girl..No concerns about addressing what he has done, learning about not doing what someone has told by another child.

coddiwomple · 15/09/2017 18:47

pulling pants, painting someone's face or stealing a lunch box.
Completely different situations and in no way comparable

For you and me (grown-ups), maybe, but for my 5 year old, they are the same. My 5 year old daughter would be just as upset by one than the other. At 5, I am struggling to make them close the toilet door when they are there! A 5 year old who has never been victim of sexual abuse won't have a clue about all these things.

Lucie8881 · 15/09/2017 18:51

To all those who believe the OP should take her DSs version of events with a pinch of salt, follow up punishment at home, stop minimising etc. Until she has spoken to the school she has no other source of information than her son.

For some unknown reason she hasn't been informed of the incident, should we all jump to the conclusion that the school is minimising the event? The teacher isn't taking it seriously? Or is it more sensible to wait until the teacher has been spoken to and a recount of events given.

If you want the parent to support the punitive action they do need to be informed in the first instance.

Mittens1969 · 15/09/2017 18:54

This is sad really. All these posters responding this way when all we have is a 5 year old's account of it, but actually only his mum's spin on what he said. So naturally everyone is filling in the gaps.

It's very weird that the school didn't tell her anything. Surely that would be expected? It would be interesting to have an update, but I expect not.

Willow2017 · 15/09/2017 18:57

Mrs
Sorry not all the posts are showing up on my phone for some reason.

Willow2017 · 15/09/2017 18:58

'mistake' I know Smile stupid fingers stupid phone.

mctat · 15/09/2017 19:34

'I would expect the boy to be suspended for a day or two.'

Completely agree on the seriousness of this but actually the above seems so much more appropriate than all the shaming that actually seems to have gone on! Face on a dark cloud? Confused Is this normal in schools? I feel embarrassed for teachers if this is what they have to work with in this day and age.

At his age and being the first time, what an earth is wrong with a child appropriate, but straight and serious conversation about why this was wrong, WITH mum informed and present?! And made clear that suspension follows for anything similar. That is what will help him internalise why this was wrong, not manipulating him and focussing him on how he was upset & hard done by, by the teacher.

Mittens1969 · 15/09/2017 19:41

@mctat, that's absolutely right, a proportionate response to what went on.

I think the other boys involved need this too, though, if it was a case of boys egging each other on, which seems likely imo.

PurpleMinionMummy · 15/09/2017 20:14

Am I missing something here? I am puzzled by the strong reactions from some posters. The kid is 5!

Think I'm missing it too!

Seems teachers can never be wrong around here though.

Mute asd kid having dojos taken away - he MUST be singing and talking in class. The teacher has clearly cured him then because the teacher can't possibly be wrong Hmm

TA being unnecessarily sarcastic to a child - suck it up, TA's and teachers can apparently speak to kids however they like even when it's rude and unnecessary and the child was unwell and completely polite.

5 yo makes a bad choice - of course the teacher can bin his picture despite it being nothing but spiteful and completely unnecessary when the child has already been punished.

Wtf is wrong with people Shock

PigletWasPoohsFriend · 15/09/2017 20:17

Seems teachers can never be wrong around here though.

That old chestnut.

There are just as many people bashing teachers across MN as there are praising them.

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