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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DH, DD and bodily autonomy

171 replies

TenForward82 · 14/09/2017 21:00

DD is 18 months. DH is an amazing dad but one thing that makes me wince is that he will ask her for a kiss or hug and if she says no, do it anyway. If I ask and she says no, I just say "ok" and leave it there.

I'm concerned at the message he's sending her by ignoring her free will on this. I know she's only little but it still makes me uncomfortable. When she says no he'll sometimes cajole her with "Go on, go onnnnn" and tonight he grabbed her for a hug after she said no and said "I got one anyway". It just makes me squirm.

She's historically not very comfortable with him so I understand he craves that contact, but I think it'll make her feel worse about their relationship, not better.

How can I bring this up without making him feel crushed? He's very "woke" on women's issues but like most men just does some things without thinking about it.

OP posts:
user1487689176 · 15/09/2017 12:57

I'm afraid until about 4 all my kids needed forcing to do certain things they didn't like. Strong resistance from them during some nappy changes, definitely some pinning down going on with tooth brushing, medicine giving, putting shoes and coats on, not allowing them to lay on supermarket floors, pinning a writhing child in a car seat

your house sounds scary as fuck..

Cailleach666 · 15/09/2017 12:58

streetface- excuse me??

You are suggesting that force is often needed when raising kids.
I suggest not.

What's the problem?

PopGoesTheWeaz · 15/09/2017 13:02

@Newdaddy I dont disagree with most of what you say but I don't think this is about transposing our hangups on to a child who isnt gendered yet. Its just htat regardless of what we do at home, the rest of the world is going to be trying to limit her voice - for instance, her nursery teacher will chide h for being bossy, when the same actions would be called assertive in her male classmate. She will be picked on less in class. She will be complimented on her appearance rather than what she has said etc etc.
So while it is important that we teach body autonomy to all of our children, it is especially important that we do with girls so as to lay a strong foundation and because they will be subject to more experiences that will subtly undermine their confidence in a way that doesn't happen to boys.

ILoveDolly · 15/09/2017 13:05

Has no one here ever had a strong willed toddler and somewhere to get to? I have definitely had to use some force to get my awful toddler into a car seat and buckled up properly. Obviously not now they are old enough to be reasonable/bribed to do things. Anyhow, I think while its important to teach children that No means No as they are growing up, allowing them to rule you and your family life with their silly toddler whims because "bodily autonomy" is something else entirely and just produces absolute nightmare tweets.

streetface · 15/09/2017 13:08

I was replying to a poster not asking for a personal attack on my parenting. Holding a wriggling baby down with a shit filled nappy to stop them rolling around it is something I witness every single day at baby groups, friends houses etc.

Administering disgusting medicine that your child desperately needs when they won't take it in a drink or youghurt or however many 'creative' ways you have tried is not something solely limited to my home I'm sure.

A toddler going rigid so you can't get them in the car seat as they don't wish to go but you really need to leave for work really can't always be resolved 'creatively'

It is easy to make disparaging comments to others online but in reality, I seriously doubt you have never needed to use force to keep your child safe even if you'd like to tell randoms online your toddler / s have always responded to patient and creative parenting.

I came to offer support to the OP, I'm not on AIBU so why comment just to put another poster down and make yourself sound better?

Interesting first post user by the way Hmm

Oh and I don't have four children. I said 'under four' referring to the ages in which I found it sometimes necessary to override bodily autonomy.

BuckinhamL · 15/09/2017 13:11

pinning a writhing child in a car seat. ..

always more creative ways to teach children

I'm with streetface on this - my 'creativity' in this scenario extends only as far as choosing between 'please get in the seat and buckle your belt' and 'GET IN THE SEAT AND BUCKLE YOUR BELT NOW'

streetface · 15/09/2017 13:15

Buckinham thank you. I am trying to this of 'creative' ways I could have strapped a tantruming two year old into the car seat but aside from asking them a few times and a bit of bribery, a firm but gentle hand is the only way I can see is suitable.

I'm open to suggestions by all means Smile

ConciseandNice · 15/09/2017 13:16

Forcing your child to brush their teeth and forcing them to kiss you are two very different things. They are not analogous and shouldn't be treated as such. At 18 months your daughter should absolutely not be kissed if she doesn't want to. Who cares if her dad is crushed. She is your responsibility (and his), not his ego. He'll get over it. Just tell him. I've had the chat with my DH about the same thing.

user1487689176 · 15/09/2017 13:17

Interesting first post user by the way

not my first post. I've been here for years. Love the passive aggressive Hmm by the way, that's the same face I made when I read about the forced teeth brushing that goes on at yours.

BuckinhamL · 15/09/2017 13:18

I'm open to suggestions by all means

If you think if any then for the love of all that's holy let me know...

I am also not above bribery.

BuckinhamL · 15/09/2017 13:19

Who cares if her dad is crushed

Emotional well-being and parent-child bonding? Pffffft, so what...

streetface · 15/09/2017 13:24

Well user, please do share your wonderful teeth brushing tips for an unwilling toddler. I'm sure there are lots of parents who would like to hear.

Much more helpful than that nasty spiteful comment you made.

Original poster
TenForward82 · 15/09/2017 13:34

Guys, guys ... can we stop the bunfight?

OP posts:
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 15/09/2017 13:43

Forcing your child to brush their teeth and forcing them to kiss you are two very different things. They are not analogous and shouldn't be treated as such

I'm amazed that had to be said but apparently it did.

Firesuit · 15/09/2017 13:46

If you love a child, why would you do something they find unpleasant, that doesn't benefit them? I want DD to be happy always, I override her as little as I possibly can, subject to the constraint of not being a negligent parent.

Adults can choose to for the sake of politeness hug other adults they'd rather not touch, children don't have the power to consent and should be left alone whenever it's clear that's their preference.

streetface · 15/09/2017 13:49

Sorry of course they are two different things. I just meant to make the point that at times, particularly for under 4's sometimes we over ride their bodily autonomy to keep them safe, clean etc. The word 'force' sounds extreme when in fact it can mean holding them gently on place while singing songs and making encouraging noises and offering words of praise. But you still over ride their autonomy. As this applies to many situations under, say, age 4 I am suggesting the age of your toddler means that as she matures, she may still find she has no difficulty expressing her wishes.

My children are older now and they have no difficulty understanding they have a choice over their body. So don't worry too much OP. If this were an older child I'd definitely say to be more concerned.

EvilDoctorBallerinaDuckKeidis · 15/09/2017 13:54

It depends on her reaction. If she seems distressed, he shouldn't do it.

DS 6 now says "that's enough kisses mummy" when he's had enough! 😂

CamelliaSinensis35 · 15/09/2017 13:55

@Streetface

How much older would the child have to be before you'd be concerned? Is there a cut off point past which the child's wishes will be respected? Genuinely curious.

GoldenOrb · 15/09/2017 14:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 15/09/2017 14:02

BuckinhamL
What if the child wants a cuddle but the adult doesn't? Is the adult a heartless git for refusing and asserting their own autonomy?

Are you serious? You can't see the difference?

streetface · 15/09/2017 14:02

Camellia this is tricky for me and as I said earlier I'm a bit on the fence. I don't disagree with posters saying 'nip it in the bud now' as such. It's just that as we over ride babies and very young children for the reasons given, I'm not sure giving an unwilling toddler affection would be the same as doing it to a 3 year old? So I'd say 3 or 4, I'd be much more strongly inclined to say how out of order it is.
But like I say I'm not in strong disagreement with the opposite view.

BuckinhamL · 15/09/2017 14:08

Are you serious? You can't see the difference?

Oh, unclench for Christ's sake. No I wasn't serious - some of the posters on here are so pompous they need poking from time to time.

sophiepotato · 15/09/2017 14:58

There's a big difference between enforcement of something necessary for a child's safety or long-term health and enforced affection.

mctat · 15/09/2017 15:11

'I think it is so important that children are able to say no to unwanted physical contact, and that they are listened to.'

Couldn't agree more. So so important.

CamelliaSinensis35 · 15/09/2017 15:15

Camellia this is tricky for me and as I said earlier I'm a bit on the fence. I don't disagree with posters saying 'nip it in the bud now' as such. It's just that as we over ride babies and very young children for the reasons given, I'm not sure giving an unwilling toddler affection would be the same as doing it to a 3 year old? So I'd say 3 or 4, I'd be much more strongly inclined to say how out of order it is. But like I say I'm not in strong disagreement with the opposite view.

Overriding babies and young children for reasons like essential medication or safety, risk reasons, I get that. Overriding for an adults gratification through affection? Not so much. And I can't imagine trying to cuddle a child who clearly doesn't want the cuddle is a very pleasant experience for the adult either.

If you raise the child up until 3/4 to submit to adult affection whether it is wanted or not, how will they suddenly develop a voice past the age of 3/4? And isn't that rather confusing for the child; daddy made me yesterday but is respecting my 'no' today?