DH, DD and bodily autonomy

[TenForward82]

DD is 18 months. DH is an amazing dad but one thing that makes me wince is that he will ask her for a kiss or hug and if she says no, do it anyway. If I ask and she says no, I just say "ok" and leave it there.

I'm concerned at the message he's sending her by ignoring her free will on this. I know she's only little but it still makes me uncomfortable. When she says no he'll sometimes cajole her with "Go on, go onnnnn" and tonight he grabbed her for a hug after she said no and said "I got one anyway". It just makes me squirm.

She's historically not very comfortable with him so I understand he craves that contact, but I think it'll make her feel worse about their relationship, not better.

How can I bring this up without making him feel crushed? He's very "woke" on women's issues but like most men just does some things without thinking about it.

PP - my dc knew exactly what they were saying no to at 18 months and could communicate very effectively.. suggesting that an 18 month old cannot tell you what they do and don't want is quite ignorant - almost as if they are not yet a person! Ridiculous

My DD(3) won't let her grandpa cuddle her. Sad for him, as he'd love to give her a big squish, but he respects her feelings and knows that she'll have a cuddle when she's ready.
YANBU, OP. Of course there's nothing wrong with spontaneously cuddling your toddler, but if they clearly don't like it, STOP.

My DD(3) won't let her grandpa cuddle her. Sad for him, as he'd love to give her a big squish, but he respects her feelings and knows that she'll have a cuddle when she's ready.
YANBU, OP. Of course there's nothing wrong with spontaneously cuddling your toddler, but if they clearly don't like it, STOP.

No idea why that posted twice. Sorry.

YANBU. He needs to build up your child's affections by playing and reading and taking care of her one to one, not just demand affection to validate his feelings. Does he do bath/bed/story regularly?

No, we had a plan that he would but it just hasn't happened. He's more involved than he used to be though, which is an improvement. If I brought it up he'd probably say I take over (I'd say I just get on with it, but hey ho).

I'm ok with the balance of care. I just don't want her to feel uncomfortable with being touched without her consent for a non-necessary reason.

two definite sets of opinions here aren't there!

Lots of people hug and kiss their kids without asking. I do. But if my child didn't like it then I wouldn't do it. That's the difference. The OP's child doesn't like what dad is doing, so he shouldn't do it... of course dad means well but the lesson it's teaching is that she doesn't have the right to say no. That's dangerous.

I had to have this discussion with my mum when my boy was a toddler too, she goes the emotional blackmail route and I hate it. She wasn't keen but she went with it.

I think you need to have the discussion. Make clear that you know he means well and "maybe you're being a bit oversensitive" (if he knows your history he should get that?) but... He probably doesn't realise the connotations.

Some people suggest a high five or something as an alternative if not upsetting the hugger is important.

Yes, love the high five idea. She readily gives those out so great alternative!

As for 2 opinions, I think there are a lot of GFs on AIBU who like to wilfully misunderstand a lot of posts.

What if the child wants a cuddle but the adult doesn't? Is the adult a heartless git for refusing and asserting their own autonomy?

I'm on the fence. I completely agree with your sentiment and also teach my children bodily autonomy. It's just that the age is important.

I'm afraid until about 4 all my kids needed forcing to do certain things they didn't like. Strong resistance from them during some nappy changes, definitely some pinning down going on with tooth brushing, medicine giving, putting shoes and coats on, not allowing them to lay on supermarket floors, pinning a writhing child in a car seat.

All of them now realise they have rights over their bodies. They didn't grow up confused. So at 18 months, although I understand your concerns, I'm sure as long as when they hit around 4 you make the switch, a few persuasive cuddles from dad won't do any harm.

(runs over and gives her objecting two year old a squeeze and sloppy kiss)

@OP your dd sounds like a very independent and intelligent girl. All children are different, and since you know her best I believe you that she is ready to build her own character and autonomy.

The thing that I'm concerned about is transgenerational trauma (yes it's an extreme way to describe it but bear with me). You said earlier you feel slightly differently about it because she is a girl, but at the moment your dd is completely innocent and unaware of the gender issues and all of the failures of us grown ups. Basically it could be more harmful to project our own hang ups onto her young mind. I'm sure dd will look up to you and will read non-verbal cues too so it's important that you and dh are on the same team whatever way it goes. The worst scenario in my mind is poor dd thinking 1. daddy does something wrong, 2. mummy doesn't like it, but 3. Mummy can't stop it.

It's great that your dh has a warm affectionate relationship with dd and it's important to keep that. I'm assuming that you are a feminist so I'm confident that dd will be brought up with the right values.

Btw my dd is only 12m and does the same thing. She's very inquisitive and independent so always wants to walk off on her own too, she will only sit in her pushchair if it's moving and never ever in a supermarket trolley.

Sometimes she pulls away from a kiss, usually because something else has piqued her interest. Sometimes I'll do a faux hurt routine, sometimes she'll grab my beard and give me her own kiss, but sometimes she is so irresistibly and perfectly cute I have to get just one more kiss from my PFB dd.

Dd is a future leader and yes I will have to stop eventually but a few more kisses aren't going to stop dd on her inevitable path to greatness.

YANBU OP.

I teach my son the same.
That it is ok to ask for a hug, but equally ok to say no.

And teaching children autonomy is one of the best lessons we can give our kids.
I hate pushy adults who think kids somehow owe them physical affection.

And it works both ways as well.

If I teach DS that he is allowed personal boundaries, and doesn't have to consent to a hug or kiss, he finds easier to understand about not invading other peoples boundaries as well.

So if I'm really not up for a big slobbery kiss at that moment, and say "No" to him, he gets thats my right too.

Hopefully he'll still get it when he's older, it's exactly the sort of drip- drip lesson that will be lifelong.

It's not just about hugs with kids, it's about a lesson for life, about having your own boundaries resoected, and respecting those of others around you too.

What if the child wants a cuddle but the adult doesn't? Is the adult a heartless git for refusing and asserting their own autonomy?

I don't think small kids are very good at emotionally self-regulating, so it would be cruel to reject them when they seek support. Older kids (say 6 or 7) should be able to understand that you need a bit of space right now and will provide a hug later though, I think. Their lips might wibble slightly, but they should be able to comprehend that it's not an outright rejection. IMO anyway!

Urgh, I vividly remember the horror of being told to give various uncles, aunties, grandparents a hug and kiss and suffer the same from them. I remember knowing it was something I just had to do, like 'go to bed' or 'eat your dinner'.

I have serious problems with assertiveness and have experienced many sexual encounters that I wanted to say no to but didn't feel able.

I've consequently never forced children in my family to have physical contact, sometimes we high five or just say hi/wave, other times they rush to give me a big hug, which is all the more lovely for being their own free choice.

I'm afraid until about 4 all my kids needed forcing to do certain things they didn't like. Strong resistance from them during some nappy changes, definitely some pinning down going on with tooth brushing, medicine giving, putting shoes and coats on, not allowing them to lay on supermarket floors, pinning a writhing child in a car seat. ..

I never forced my kids to do these things- always more creative ways to teach children.
Forcing teethbrushing in particular sounds horrible.

Of course if their life depended on some unpleasant medical treatment for instance. it may be necessary, but to me forcing is a technique that I don't use.

He's very "woke" on women's issues but like most men just does some things without thinking about it.

I have absolutely no idea what this means. Can anyone enlighten me please?

Well Cailleach that's great for you. I wish I had time in the mornings to find 'creative' ways to get everyone ready and out the door on time.

Forcing a bit of teeth brushing isn't nearly as bad as forcing a filling on rotten teeth.

But thanks for the 'holier than thou' judgemental comment.

He needs to spend one-on-one quality time with her, without you. He should be taking her out for dad and DD trips on a Saturday so they can bond and have their own relationship. And you should remove yourself completely from some bath and bed times for the same reason.

*Forcing a bit of teeth brushing isn't nearly as bad as forcing a filling on rotten teeth.
*

I do neither streetface.

I guess if I had chosen to have 4 kids my time would be stretched too.

@Mimsy123 I meant that he's not a chauvinistic male who thinks women's place is in the kitchen. He's very much a feminist, and he's very well-intentioned. But despite that, he DOES exist in his world of male privilege and sometimes doesn't realise how some things can be perceived by women (in this case, bodily autonomy and consent). He wouldn't see the parallel with adult interactions unless I pointed it out. That's not an oversight or fault on his part, just his privilege that we all slip up on occasionally.

@NewDaddie, yes, I am a feminist :) She's being taught the right values. I try to be supportive and not raise the issue in front of her unless she's really upset.

And we are a very phyisically affectionate family btw.

Lots of cuddles, hugs, spontanious kisses, from all sides.

But if someone says no, then it respected, that's it.

I agree OP - it's not about withholding affection and it's not about abuse, it's about teaching children that when it's their body it's their rules!

I've been thinking about this a bit recently as I know family won't agree. If you still want articles, a couple I've come across recently talk primarily about grandparents, but that might be good as not targeting him?

www.scarymommy.com/why-we-dont-force-our-kids-to-give-hugs/

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2012/06/20/living/give-grandma-hug-child/index.html

I love the high five idea too. And apologies for not remember this last night but thats what me and DN would do and then that turned into fist bumps which then turned into fist bumps with elaborate endings (bump and then finger fireworks) and it became an inside joke between us, having a secret handshake of sorts and as really lovely, helped build trust and affectino and cement a bond, etc.

on another note, If I'm really not up for a cuddle and one of my two boys jumps on me then I tell them that I'm not feeling it at the moment. I try to give a reason (I'm not feeling well, lm eating,etc) and tell them i love them and to give me 15 minutes. And I'll often ask for a compromise of a quick kiss or a fist bump so they don't feel totally dejected. But for my own sanity, I need to by in charge of my body (gave it over to them for about 5 years between being pregnant and breastfeeding) and also, I think its really important to teach them that other people have bodily autonomy and that not having access to someones body doesn't mean they don't love you, iyswim

Cailleach, did you even read my post properly? Or did you just come on here to be spiteful and belittling to a poster to make yourself feel better about your own shortcomings?