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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To call out casual sexism in a work meeting even if it was 'just a joke'.

130 replies

AltCarbon · 14/09/2017 20:18

First time on Aibu but this seriously annoyed me today and I was baffled by everyone else's reactions.

I am head of department in a secondary school and it was our leadership meeting this evening. There is one (male) member of staff that blatantly never listens or contributes (sat on his laptop etc) and then asks the same question we have literally just spent the last 15 or so minutes discussing. Everyone complains about it afterwards as it is infuriating and drags the meeting on every time as we then go over it all again for his benefit. So today I, politely as I could, said "we've just discussed this, you weren't listening, what are you unsure of?". He then turned to the colleagues next to him (the other men in the room) and loudly said "I never listen to women I just tune it out" and they all laughed.

I was horrified and so replied that I thought his comment was a totally appalling thing to say in a professional meeting and that I was genuinely offended that he thought casual sexism was acceptable. He went quiet and we then moved on but from the looks on everyone's faces (including the women) it seemed they would have all just accepted it and would never question it at all.

I know he would have been uncomfortable that I pointed out his inattention but I just think his response needed challenging as I hate how we are constantly surrounded by these small, seemingly acceptable ways of disparaging women.

So, was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
DrizzleHair · 14/09/2017 22:08

Good work OP, I don't know you but I'm proud of you.

In the interest of calling out I acceptable language /jokes, pennysnow knobjockey is a homophobic insult (think about how a jockey rides a horse, now replace your horse image with a knob image) so I think this is a good one to drop from the vernacular. I've seen it a few times on MN recently and tonight, inspired by OP, decided to speak up at the risk of embarrassing myself and being called an upright prude by other posters Blush

bunningsbunny · 14/09/2017 22:39

That's incredibly unprofessional - I'm hoping the meeting was minuted and the comment accurately reported... If not, I would be asking for it to be minuted and cc it to the head and/or deputy. He deserves a serious rollicking for saying it - and although I suspect he will claim it was just banter, as somebody said on another thread, banter wasn't allowed in their child's school because it's usually basically used by people who want to bully but not be punished - and that works as well here as it does for kid's banter...

If he had said that he didn't listen to pretty much any other group - black staff, [every religious group insert here] staff, disabled staff, gay staff and so on - he would be hauled over the coals. He should also be hauled over the coals for this.

Would also be interesting to see if he tunes out his female students in class...

The only thing YABU about is to call it casual sexism - there's nothing casual about it, it's pure unadulterated sexism and should be taken seriously.

AdaColeman · 14/09/2017 22:40

It would be bad enough if this Neanderthal were the local Rag & Bone man, but no, he's a teacher, actually teaching this crap to our sons and grand sons and worse still to our daughters and grand daughters.

I can't believe that any Head or teaching union would actually tolerate these comments.

PidgeonSpray · 14/09/2017 22:42

Well done and I would raise a grievance/ tell his boss so it's on record

Timefortea99 · 14/09/2017 22:48

No YANBU.

YABFA

(Fucking Awesome)

ChasedByBees · 14/09/2017 22:51

That gives me the rage. Do schools have HR? I would be raising this further. So unprofessional. Perhaps if he tried to listen to 50% of his colleagues he wouldn't look so incompetent in meetings.

SusanTheGentle · 14/09/2017 22:53

Well done for speaking up, you were totally right to do so.

123rd · 14/09/2017 22:54

Totally right. Well done for saying something

bunningsbunny · 14/09/2017 22:56

I've found if a guy tries to talk to me/other women at work and refer to us as girls, I immediately reply but managing to call him a boy. or a sweet boy. or a little boy. or a cute little boy etc etc... And if they complain (as has happened on more than one occasion) I just look very affronted and explain that I thought that they wanted that as they had started it by calling me/us girls, and why on earth would they do that if he didn't want to be called a boy in return? There's usually a moment or two's pause and then you can hear the penny drop as they realise what it's like to be patronised!

So, would be something along the lines of:
guy - 'Hi girls, how are you doing?'
me - 'Oh fine thanks and aren't you a sweet lil' boy for being so kind and asking'

Sort of sounds a bit contrived there but it's usually quite easy to reply and incorporate boy, particularly if you have decided upon that as a strategy in advance so it comes out as a natural response, rather than something that occurs to you a couple of hours later as you're on your way home and pondering on the day!

Withhindsight · 14/09/2017 22:57

He's shot himself in the foot hasn't he, said publicly at work that he doesn't listen to any female co-workers including his bosses, get it minuted, if he carries on like this someone may need the minutes as evidence

filou87 · 14/09/2017 23:10

Excellent! Hope he's taken it on board

rwalker · 14/09/2017 23:12

madmags Well don't tell sexist, racist, ageist, or disablist jokes and you're good to go sorry read my post back and can't seem to see where i put that in there. One example a group of 6 people work together and take it in turn to make brews at break one women had brews made for her all week, and when it was here turn refused as she said because she was a women should not be expect to make a brew for everyone .No it's your turn nothing to do with you being a women, then a few guys said because she would not make a brew being a women meant it was left to the men to brew up . Memo from hr and everything to sort it out draining atmosphere to work in . One lad said he had a goodnight with his girlfriend (no sexual references at all) they had been to a club a colleague walk in half way through the conversion all she heard was the goodnight bit and he was reported for have an inappropriate sexual conversion

madmags your response seem very agressive

StealthPolarBear · 14/09/2017 23:14

Well done op!
Cat size, do you get the minutes, either after the meeting or at the start of the next one to check for accuracy?

mammmamia · 15/09/2017 01:07

Well done op. You are brill.

HeteronormativeHaybales · 15/09/2017 06:04

Bloody hell, he's a TEACHER?
I would want to know if someone with those attitudes were teaching my dd.
I actually think that needs reorting upwards, OP.
Well done.

Sunnysidegold · 15/09/2017 07:05

Excellent response. It's the kind of thing I'd think of give minutes later and then kick myself for not saying it at the time. He is presumably teaching young women and I shudder to think of him making similar comments in class. I think you responded perfectly and I am very proud that you called him out (that sounds a bit patronising but I am being completely genuine). Well done!

roundtable · 15/09/2017 07:13

What a dick he is.

Well done op. Yanbu.

He'll probably be a deputy head or head in a few years but that's a whole other rant thread.

blubberball · 15/09/2017 07:27

Well done OP. :)
I was visited by 3 student doctors yesterday, 2 young white men and a young asian woman. They were all lovely, but I noticed that the men were speaking and standing confidently, and the woman appeared a little shy and quiet. She went to ask a question a few times, but the men kept talking over her and interrupting her. I made a point to look directly at her and smile, just so that I could listen to her question. I felt bad for her that I had to do that. It's not about bashing men down, it's about lifting women up.

PollytheDoily · 15/09/2017 07:36

He made it out to be a joke but he wasn't listening, was he!

Well done OP 👍

quercuscircus · 15/09/2017 08:16

Seriously, well done and thank you!! Star

You are a heroine. It can be hard to be the one to stand up and put your head above the parapet - as you've realised you don't always get the openly supportive reaction you might expect. Herd mentality or whatever.

But you are unquestionably 100% right and it was an apalling thing to say. More so for a teacher. He might have been 'being funny' but he did actually mean it.

Agree that if you substitute the word woman for another group then its clearly not acceptable in any capacity.

This needs to be taken further by senior staff. They need to crack down on this attitude and support you.

You are awesome :)

monkeywithacowface · 15/09/2017 08:21

You were brilliant OP well done. I don't think people were horrified that you pulled him up on it I think it is just typical british discomfort at confrontation.

I would consider this his first warning though but anymore and I'd be making a more formal complaint to the head. What an unprofessional prick. If he continues to not listen then I think the only way forward is to keep repeating "We've just covered this, we need to keep the meeting moving" and then carry on. Under no circumstances would I repeat info anymore.

allegretto · 15/09/2017 08:23

Well done!

Isetan · 15/09/2017 08:28

There was nothing casual about his sexism, actually his general behaviour is unprofessional and unpleasant.

Babypythagorus · 15/09/2017 08:35

Well done. We need more people like you.

I'd probably also raise it with my line manager (who I guess is someone on SLT?) in a "I need advice to deal with this" way, so that you have made them aware, but not asked them to deal with it yet. Ultimately, if someone in my dept was behaving like this (the general disrespect in the meeting would be enough, let alone the sexism) I'd be asking them to change their behaviour, and saying if they didn't I'd be involving SLT/HR.

Good luck!

Fishface77 · 15/09/2017 08:43

You dealt with it brilliantly op. Legend.
Hope everything is ok today.