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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For dp's wine to not come out of household finances.

415 replies

Iamthinking · 13/09/2017 14:55

I am in the process of rearranging our household finances. It is long overdue. I am setting up a joint account, and we will both keep an individual account each. All bills, savings and family things will come out of the joint account, we will give each of us a monthly allowance of what is left. I am thinking maybe £500 each.

The problem is that he drinks A LOT of wine. For years now he has drunk at least a bottle of wine a night without a break. He doesn't get the cheapest wines, he really enjoys reading, learning and talking about wine and knows a lot on the subject (intellectualising his functional alcoholism, some might say). I am nearly tee total at home, I maybe have a glass per week.

I think he spends between £10-£15 per bottle, so an awful lot per month. And I want to suggest that if he insists on spending so much on it, that it should come out of his spends.
But if we are allotting £500 each for our spending money, that would eat away at most of his, and he is the only earner as I am currently a SAHM. That seems very harsh. But on the other hand, I don't see why I should finance his boozing....

I am being unusual for suggesting this? As it will be a bit of an icky conversation when it happens. I want to have thought it through properly.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 15/09/2017 13:55

Op, how old are you're children, I can't see you answering that, did I miss it?

*What is so fucking difficult to understand that she is a SAHM and therefore his wages are JOINT money+

Getting angry and swearing won't change the fact it's not. He can chose to share it and morally there is an argument clearly he should, but it's not joint legally, it's joint voluntarily on the part of the earner.

reetgood · 15/09/2017 13:55

I think your responses aren't exactly helpful, @walkingdead11. Ate you basically saying ltb? When about half of this weird speculative discussion has been about the financial vulnerability of the op?

Crocodilesoup · 15/09/2017 14:02

The evening you describe doesn't sound abusive at all. It's more the "what ifs..". What if, you want to take up a hobby that involves him being in sole charge of the dcs one or two evenings a week - what would he say? What if you went back to work or study and he had to drive dcs to childcare in the mornings, would he? What about when the dcs are old enough to be up later, will he be drinking in front of them every night ?
I had a relative who only noticed her dh's drinking was excessive when they were on holiday, and he couldn't do any activity that might involve being away from alcohol at the time that his mental "have a drink" clock kicked in each day.

Walkingdead11 · 15/09/2017 14:13

Pallisers

I'm not telling the OP to do anything, only to address the issue. Sharing my own personal experience of what can happen if the issue doesn't get addressed.

danTDM · 15/09/2017 14:16

Walkingdead you are clearly projecting, being unhelpful and upsetting the OP so do leave it now.

I feel bed enough saying it isn't her money. But unfortunately that is true. You are making up a whole scenario based on your personal experience.

arethereanyleftatall · 15/09/2017 14:27

I'm a sahp (well a little part time work) and I don't see dhs wages as joint.
I'll tell you why. He works his arse off in a stressful job commanding a salary I could never get close to, regardless of career break. I don't want a stressful job, and live a lovely life with lots of time off. He earns enough, and gladly shares, with me and our dc for whatever we want. I think it would be absurd for me to tell him what he's allowed to do with his disposable income.
I'm not saying that applies to ops situation, we haven't had enough info.

Walkingdead11 · 15/09/2017 14:32

Projecting huh, yep me and every other poster who's had experience of alcoholism........very unhelpful to actually discuss the issue, let's all put the issues under a lovely big rug.....they might actually disappear 🤔 maybe it is you who is in denial about your own drinking and minimising.....ya know, like alcoholics do.

CamelliaSinensis35 · 15/09/2017 14:38

Projecting huh, yep me and every other poster who's had experience of alcoholism........very unhelpful to actually discuss the issue, let's all put the issues under a lovely big rug.....they might actually disappear 🤔 maybe it is you who is in denial about your own drinking and minimising.....ya know, like alcoholics do.

Whoa! Now the OP has a drink problem too? Sure you're not projecting Walking ?

reetgood · 15/09/2017 14:39

I'm currently not drinking, @walkingdead11, because I'm pregnant. If I were an alcoholic I would have found this difficult to impossible to do.

You're projecting. Massively.

Pallisers · 15/09/2017 14:39

Yes you are telling the OP to address the issue walking Just how do you suggest she does that???

The only response you have come up with is that you left your husband - so is that what you consider "addressing the issue"

If not, surely you realise that nothing the OP can "address" will have any affect on the issue. The issue is her husband's (same as the money apparently). So given that, statements like this are unhelpful, patronising, and seem to blame the OP for what is her husband's problem.

Be an adult and tell him his drinking is UNACCEPTABLE or continue to enable an alcoholic, your choice.

Walkingdead11 · 15/09/2017 14:40

CamelliaSinensis35

I was replying to another poster who also drinks a bottle of wine a night.

Walkingdead11 · 15/09/2017 14:45

Pallisers

What?? Yes I bloody well did leave my ex, because he had no intention of ever addressing his issues which caused mayhem and destruction to both myself and my children. Are you actually suggesting that all women should stay with their alcoholic partners??? Well luckily ss don't suggest such things, they have a very clear policy, leave him/her or we take your children.

Pallisers · 15/09/2017 15:02

No I am not suggesting people stay with alcoholic partners. And I have absolutely no opinion whatsoever about your life and choices other than to wish you well like I would anyone.

You seem to be incapable of either reading what people are actually posting or owning your own very blaming, unhelpful posts to the OP. You need to remember you are not addressing the alcoholic here but his wife. you are blaming her for his problem. You are accusing her of enabling him unless she addresses the issue - but seem incapable of saying in any helpful way what that addressing would look like and why on earth it would be helpful, given the stated wisdom on alcoholics is that nothing anyone does stops them unless they want to stop.

Maybe she needs to leave him, maybe she doesn't. But you telling her that she is enabling him is not helpful and is pretty crap tbh.

danTDM · 15/09/2017 15:05

If you mean I drink a bottle of wine a night, yes, sometimes I do. Sometimes lots of people do. But I am not an alcoholic, thanks.

You have so far told me my liver doesn't work, now I am an alcoholic too!

Cray cray. Leave OP alone.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your husband, it has clearly coloured your view on things, as well it might. Flowers

Walkingdead11 · 15/09/2017 15:10

Pallisers

But that is what she is doing?? Anyone who has been to AA or NA would say the same thing. It's very common in this scenario which therapy would confirm. I don't blame her, of course I don't but do know how see these things. I honestly don't think you know much about addiction .

Danceswithwarthogs · 15/09/2017 15:10

As you are not married, legally you might not have a claim on his earnings or a right to dictate personal spending allowances beyond the needs of your children... In terms of working out joint finances, I would focus on making sure that you have your name on things (joint savings, mortgage/tenancy etc) in case things went wrong - which is more likely in light of his relationship with alcohol - should things get out of control or his health/work suffers.

I would try to have a conversation about the drinking, maybe aim for a few dry nights per week. But let him know you are concerned more about him rather than the money.

Pallisers · 15/09/2017 15:15

You have absolutely no idea what I know or don't know or what I have experiences about adiction, Walking, so don't presume.

I would love to know what you think the OP should be doing that would have any effect on her dh knocking back 2 bottles of wine a day?

She could certainly remove herself from the situation - I might in the same circumstances. But just what does AA advise the partner can do that will change the alcoholic's behaviour? I'd love to know.

And yes your posts did sound like you blamed her. Your post I quoted early on sounded very angry at the OP.

Walkingdead11 · 15/09/2017 16:15

"Enabling Defined
In the context of alcoholism, an enabling relationship is one that makes it easier for the person with the addiction to continue in their destructive lifestyle. In most cases, enablers are well-intentioned and believe that their actions are beneficial to the alcoholic. However, the opposite is usually the case.

Without enablers in their lives, alcoholics typically descend much faster into the chaos and pain that their destructive lifestyle engenders. The enabler wants to protect the alcoholic from the pain of this descent, so they spend much of their energy trying to offset the potential damage. The reverse side of this dilemma is that any alcoholic who is protected from the ramifications of their drinking problem will be less motivated to seek rehabilitation.

For the enabler, the thought of letting the person they care about hurt themselves is too much to endure. What they do not realize is that their acts of kindness and protection may actually contribute to deepening the alcoholic’s addiction. Only by stepping back from this toxic relationship can the enabler hope to recover their sense of self, and truly help the alcoholic they care about.

Different Types of Enabling Relationships
Enabling relationships affect more than alcoholics. They can apply to any addictive lifestyle, including those that involve substances, gambling or even shopping. The archetype of an enabler as a spouse or close friend is most common. However, there are many people who can play the role of enabler in an addict’s life.

These are three of the most common enabling roles seen in an alcoholic’s life:

Drinking Friends as Enablers
Drinking Friends are primary enablers, and they help to reinforce destructive habits. This also applies to younger people in the form of peer pressure. Many people who start drinking before they are 14 years old go on to become alcoholics. With this in mind, stopping the enabling influence of peer pressure on young people has a dramatic impact on their chances of succumbing to alcoholism.

Family Members as Enablers
Family members are the most common enablers in an alcoholic’s life, though this often goes unrecognized. In an attempt to help the alcoholic, loved ones may be offering implicit consent to continue their addictive lifestyle. This may include cleaning up after the alcoholic, lending money, picking them up when they become severely intoxicated and escorting them home.

Medical Practitioners as Enablers
Medical Practitioners are rarely identified as enablers of addicts, but the doctor-patient relationship can sometimes turn into an enabling one. This applies more to abuse of medication than to alcoholism. For example, in order to save a patient from the short-term pain of withdrawal symptoms, a physician may continue to prescribe addictive pain medication after the initial need has passed. This sets the addict up for more complicated problems in the near future.

Identifying Enablers
After going through the process of alcohol rehabilitation, a recovering alcoholic needs to take inventory of their relationships to determine which may have an enabling effect on them. The addiction counselor will assist in this process, offering suggestions and recommendations where appropriate. Identifying enablers and decreasing their role in an addict’s life helps to reduce the chances of relapse.

Opposite this, the alcoholic and addiction counselor may work together to identify which relationships are especially healthy and supportive. Fostering and building on healthy relationships is extremely important early in the recovery model. These will ideally be people who do not drink and who do not exert an enabling influence on the alcoholic.

Of course, everyone’s situation is different. While going through rehab and developing strategies for recovery, a person may realize that they have few if any friends who supply positive support. If this is the case, the addiction counselor will probably recommend that the alcoholic in recovery intentionally seek out new supportive relationships. This can be a challenging process, but its rewards are substantial.

One of the easiest places to build positive relationships after completing rehab is through support groups back home. People in these groups naturally identify with one another and have many of the same short-term life objectives in mind. Again, counselors at rehab centers can be a resource for connecting with support groups in a particular area.

Healthy Relationships for Alcoholics
When a recovering alcoholic sets out to put their life in order, they need comprehensive support from those who care about them. This is an ideal opportunity to supply positive assistance. However, it also gives those with a tendency to enable an opportunity to return to their old ways.

To put an end to enabling behavior, family members of alcoholics are encouraged to attend classes and consider enrolling in support groups for alcoholic families. This can help them prepare for the possibility of relapse and equip them with strategies for encouraging total abstinence from drinking. Alcoholics who return from rehab to supportive friends and family members are much more likely to succeed in recovery."

danTDM · 15/09/2017 16:30

#overinvested.
FFS

Walkingdead11 · 15/09/2017 16:41

danTDM

No, actual help from people who understand addiction ffs.

Wolfiefan · 15/09/2017 16:56

What a shame the OP isn't invested enough to see this as more than a financial issue.
Any person who has grown up with or had direct experience of a parent with a problem with alcohol knows how utterly shit it can be for the children and how it can insidiously affect the whole dynamics of the family.

Pawpainting · 15/09/2017 19:45

Seems to me that the OP does know that there is a problem beyond the financial aspect, she has said so herself several times. Whatever happened to the "3 Cs" advice that posters concerned about a loved ones drinking are usually given? There is nothing she can do to change his drinking habits.

I don't think it's fair to attack the OP and insinuate that she is a bad parent just because she isn't in a rush to leave her DP. In fact I think that some of the posts on this thread are horrible, they are blatant projection, and amount to bullying of the OP. Well done people, that will definitely help 👏

Wolfiefan · 15/09/2017 20:32

Well neither will doing bugger all except complaining he's spending too much money. Completely avoiding the real issue and ensuring kids grow up seeing drinking to excess as the norm.
It's not bullying to state that the family will be harmed by his drinking. It's fact.

DoubleDinghyRapids · 15/09/2017 21:54

Totally understand you wanting separate spending money, dh and myself have recently switched to this, we don't have a joint account and when dh realised mine was almost empty at the end of the month and his still had a bit left he wanted to rebudget.

I think what OP is asking isn't if say grocery budget is £100 a week, husband spends leaving them with £50 for fluttering or saving each. But that her husband spends £50 on wine so which way if budgeting is fairer, dh paying for his wine from his fun money as it's a fun item, or it being classed as a household item meaning after budgetung in £50 for dh s wine, it leaves £50 for food and whatever for the three of them, or each of their fun money is reduced to £25 so that dh can have his £50'worth of wine and they still have the £100 for actual groceries..

Dh doesn't drink a lot but when he does, it'll come out of the family budget, maybe once every few months a bottle of vodka gets put in the trolley, a bottle of wine a week or so is a treat but a bottle a day is a habit. Totally reasonable to want to know how to budget around his expensive habit.

I think if he was consuming the alcohol elsewhere, a mates, the pub, you would have different responses about the alcohol being classed a grocery and would be told you should have similar amount of money to and free time to spend on yourself relaxing each week.

2rebecca · 15/09/2017 22:20

Someone who drinks a bottle of wine every night will be alcohol dependant. Their body will be used to it and if asked to abstain for a few days they'd find it difficult. Your liver copes very well with excess alcohol until it stops doing so. Normal liver tests are irrelevant. If you're drinking that much you will be damaging it and your brain. If you choose to live with a currently functioning alcoholic fine, but this is what you are choosing