For dp's wine to not come out of household finances.

[Iamthinking]

I am in the process of rearranging our household finances. It is long overdue. I am setting up a joint account, and we will both keep an individual account each. All bills, savings and family things will come out of the joint account, we will give each of us a monthly allowance of what is left. I am thinking maybe £500 each.

The problem is that he drinks A LOT of wine. For years now he has drunk at least a bottle of wine a night without a break. He doesn't get the cheapest wines, he really enjoys reading, learning and talking about wine and knows a lot on the subject (intellectualising his functional alcoholism, some might say). I am nearly tee total at home, I maybe have a glass per week.

I think he spends between £10-£15 per bottle, so an awful lot per month. And I want to suggest that if he insists on spending so much on it, that it should come out of his spends.
But if we are allotting £500 each for our spending money, that would eat away at most of his, and he is the only earner as I am currently a SAHM. That seems very harsh. But on the other hand, I don't see why I should finance his boozing....

I am being unusual for suggesting this? As it will be a bit of an icky conversation when it happens. I want to have thought it through properly.

But it is NOT her money. She has no rights over it. You lot seem to be annoyed with ME for pointing this out.

Maybe that's because most people (quite rightly) do not expect the quality and fairness of what is supposed to be their loving relationship to be governed by 'what the law says'. Most people are not trying to argue that you are wrong about the OP's legal position. They are arguing that this isn't how a loving and mutually beneficial relationship should work.

And however inadvisable it may be for a woman to enter into this kind of arrangement without being married, if the dp has agreed to this all along and is happy for the OP to be a SAHM, providing him with all the benefits that entails (i.e. taking little or no responsibility for looking after his own children, doing little or nothing around the house, letting the OP carry all the mental load of family admin etc), then he cannot morally expect the OP to be left with meagre funds and he should see his income as largely 'theirs', not 'his', whether that is legally the case or not.

The drinking is a separate issue and a very serious one. Worth LTB over, if he is unwilling to change, but financial situation would then be difficult for the OP.

They do start to notice it. They really do. Splitting the spending money is the least of your problems.

Oh dear, touched a nerve I see.

Of course you all touched a bloody nerve! Calling her a nanny / housekeeper / telling her to leave her partner / telling her she has no idea about her life / about her partners habits / she asked a question and as usual MN has gone mental with their wild speculation about her personal life.

FFS.

Where the fuck do you people get off?

snash12

Calm down, I have not mentioned any of those things! Just about alcholism and the effects of that......because that is the issue here.

Hang on, if OP is SAHM, isn't her DH - who is earning the money - entitled to spend it on whatever he likes? I'd take a very dim view of anyone telling me how to spend my money!

From a non financial viewpoint though, YANBU, that is a lot of wine and will cause health problems at some point, I'd worry if the man I love was slowly pickling his liver.

because that is the issue here

According to you. It was not what the OP was asking for opinions on and she has made it clear it is not something she wants to discuss on this thread. Your perceived right to express an opinion does not trump her right to not want your opinion.

Oh dear, touched a nerve I see. Be an adult and tell him his drinking is UNACCEPTABLE or continue to enable an alcoholic, your choice.

If the OP had posted that she was worried about her dh's drinking and what should she do about it, she would be innundated with responses (probably from charming posters like the one I quoted) telling her solemnly that she didn't cause it and can't control it and can't change it etc.

But for some reason this woman (is it because she isn't married or is a SAHM?) is being told she is an enabler and isn't dealing with the issue at hand etc - as if anything she does will have any affect whatsoever on her husband's drinking. We all know that. She can refuse to ferry the children around and he will STILL drink. She can have a knock-down drag out fight with him every night and he will STILL drink. He will only stop when HE wants to - she can do nothing.

But so many people want to have a kick at her about his alcoholism.

And then there are the posts about a bottle or two a night not being too much. Has anyone asked what this guy does for a living. Would you feel like that if he was your doctor? A nurse? Someone who puts together airplanes? Someone who inspects cars for safety?

Weird thread. Good luck OP. You have had some great responses too.

HerOtherHalf

It's not just my opinion. Many other posters have commented on the alcohol issue and some with personal experience. It is just frustrating for those of us who have experienced the effects of alcoholism that the OP does not think it to be such an issue.

Frenchlady thank you for your thoughts. I am sorry that you are having to split up now, but you are certainly doing the right thing as I am sure you are aware. I hope you are your children are coping. By, the way, I am not sure what 'emotionally unavailable' looks like..sorry if that sounds really dumb... I am giving thought to everything that is being said by people here (apart from straight out LTB).
I am going to look at what has been absorbed as normal behaviour when it is actually pandering to his desire to drink wine.

He gets public transport to work everyday.

I observed the drinking last night for the purposes of this thread, and looked in on our interactions from the outside.

At about 9.30 I noticed that he had finished a bottle and thought 'blimey, he is doing much more than I thought', then he had 2 glasses of red and stopped by 10.15. (It was 12% and 13% wine, for whoever asked that). We watched Great British Bake off, then the TV went off and we talked quite pleasantly for about half and hour, before we went up to bed at 10.45.
It may sound boring, but I couldn't see how it was abusive. And it wasn't unusual (in terms of behaviour).

Expat Drink it is not the acute problem that I am facing now. Now what I am facing is a serious imbalance in our finances and that is much more of a real issue affecting me. And anyway even if I were to suddenly want to LTB, having the finances set up differently would be an essential step along the way.
I am bothered about his long term health and how much he drinks but that was not what I posted about here. Although he does not display problem behaviour due to drinking I am sure he is dependent.

I actually have faith in him that given time he will get the strength to make a change. It is just a question of when. He used to smoke a lot years ago, and I learnt from that experience that he had to do it in his own way and in his own time. He wanted to do it, but was never getting around to doing it. But any worrying/pushing/getting angry from me was counter productive. I backed right off, then in the end he did it very quietly, he just stopped and didn't tell me. I pretended not to notice that he wasn't going outside.
So I have learnt from that. I have told him I am worried a couple of times and he has heard me and it didn't cause defensiveness. I don't want his barriers to go up. But I think smoking is a lot easier to stop than alcohol.

But on the finances chat. I think that will happen when the switch goes ahead in a couple of weeks and we talk through all the direct debits.

Hang on, if OP is SAHM, isn't her DH - who is earning the money - entitled to spend it on whatever he likes?

I (respectfully) disagree - married or not they are in a partnership, and they are both taking on differing but essential roles in the partnership. He is earning the living that supports their life together, she is looking after the children and taking on the tasks required for that life. So just as the children aren't just 'hers', the money shouldn't be considered 'his', not in any kind of equitable partnership.

I too think there's 2 different issues here. If you dissect all the spending he could say 'you spend £x on chocolate/expensive conditioner/facecreams/clothes and I don't buy hardly any of that'. Bring up the wine consumption separately and say it's just too much.

Yes but walkingdead you were just plain rude.

Janus yes he could say that, and I don't want either of us picking on the other about individual spending. That is why I say we have separate accounts for individual spending. So he can spend as much of his half as he wants on whatever he wants. And I can spend it all on mint aeros if I like!

User - I am trying to make it fair to both of us. He is entitled to spend his half on whatever he likes, but do you mean he is entitled to spend it ALL?

Iamthinking

Not rude at all just frustrated by your lack of action......trust me I know all about the damaging consequences of alcoholism, as do many other posters on here.

I get it, you've a comfortable life with someone who doesn't turn nasty with drink, that's great. However that doesn't mean damage isn't being done. That's what is frustrating me but I do understsnd why you don't want to rock the boat, it's scary to do so.

@Walkingdead11 the OP doesn't owe you any particular course of action in any set time period. If you are frustrated then walk away. You have a microscopic glimpse of the OP's life and while it can be illuminating for posters to share views and opinions don't kid yourself that any of us have the definitive answer to her problems.

Walking you are inflammatory. Just leave it now.

Millions of people have a bottle of wine a night and function fine, are kind, nice parents and spouses. Whether you think the OP's DH is an alcoholic or not is totally unasked for opinion.

I think inappropriate spending is an issue regardless of who is earning the money. And spending so much on alcohol isn't on even if you're a mega earner. And drinking a bottle of wine every single night is way too much and far far beyond health recommendations. It's not goady to point this out at all.

How often do you go out of an evening and leave him in charge of the children?
Does he drink then??could he tell if they were spiking a fever or just grumbling, clean them up if they were sick comfort them and put them to bed etc etc
Is he taking them to activities early on the weekend ....driving back from things in the evenings? or is that all you?
I just wonder how much of your life has become organised around his drinking.....
Re finances its good to have a budget - and I was a SAHM for a number of years so understand the 'frugal' thing ...where does he get his wine from is it in the shopping or is it wine club/society type stuff..
if its shopping maybe much smaller amount of individual spends eg 75/100 and show alcohol as a specific line on the spreadsheets just to make it obvious...to start with

Iam it's the elephant in the room, though, because right now you are an unmarried partner of a person who has a serious problem with drink. It's like asking if it's enough to put a plaster on your hand that's just been chopped off. The finances are a red herring for the fact that you are in a very vulnerable position. It's sad to see because you'll never get what you want to hear from everyone on here, as so many have seen how this can really go wrong for the person who is the SAHP to an unmarried partner. I'd leave the whole question of splitting up spending money for now and look at how I could improve my own financial independence in such a setting because tbh it would scare the living hell out of me to be in your shoes. I wish you the best of luck in however you go forward, I really do.

danTDM

Yes there are lots of alcoholics. OP, just so you are aware if you were ill and your dp took the kids to school and the school smelled alcohol on him (after 1 bottle they would), they could inform social services.

So Walking since you seem to have the secret of how someone can get their partner to stop problem drinking, would you like to share? it would probably be helpful to a lot of people.

Obviously you are aware that talking about it, making demands, issuing ultimatums and telling them all the bad consequences of problem drinking, don't change anything. So just exactly what do you want the OP to do???

You have a partner you admit is dependent on booze. Yet your only concern is the money?

Address it......seriously. I did leave my alcoholic partner and am currently in a court case with my ex because I stopped contact due to him drinking while he had her. I was informed by SS that if I allowed contact that I would lose my DD.....because ss know the serious repercussions for children brought up by alcoholic parents. The OP cannot make him stop drinking, that is true but she can choose to protect herself and her children.

I also suspect there is a class issue here, if OP's partner was drinking 8 cans of stella a night the responses would be different. But good wine is somehow more civilised???

So you think the OP should leave her husband, Walking. That is the response you are demanding from her?