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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Religion

503 replies

crazydil · 12/09/2017 11:48

There have been a few threads in regards to religion and without exception there are always a few posters who cannot help themselves from being disrespectful.

Is it difficult to get a point across without a slight dig? Criticism is part of a healthy discussion but to be so rude about something that is very important to some. ..is it really needed?
I've never felt the need to be rude about anyones belief no matter how strange I find it to be.

So basically aibu in expecting respect in any conversation

OP posts:
CaoNiMartacus · 12/09/2017 12:04

I wouldn't force anyone to respect my religion. Take the piss, for all I care. Just don't kill me for it and we're all good.

ballestief · 12/09/2017 12:07

Yabu. I am under no obligation to respect other people's religion. Especially the parts that don't respect me. Why do you imagine we should have to?

NearLifeExperience · 12/09/2017 12:12

I hate this obligatory respect we're supposed to have for all religions, and that it is forbidden to offend anybody.
It never works both ways, e.g. "Christian" B &B owners turning away gay guests.
Earn respect, don't demand it.

ballestief · 12/09/2017 12:15

I respect a lot of people who have religious beliefs. I don't respect most of those beliefs though, I find them illogical, silly and often harmful.

specialsubject · 12/09/2017 12:19

Beliefs do not deserve respect. People do.

If you get offended at someone not respecting your belief, that is your problem.

broadbeany · 12/09/2017 12:21

I'm not sure that people exactly need to 'respect' any particular religion - it may well be that one thinks it's absurd or positively harmful in some way, and people need to be able to say that.

But it is true that some of the superstars of atheism (like Richard Dawkins, for example) are unnecessarily rude, and that's a great pity. If you're right you should be able to win the argument without resorting to abusing people who disagree with you.

I think requests for 'respect' tend to come across badly, but hoping for good manners isn't unreasonable.

Beerwench · 12/09/2017 12:22

I'll respect anyone who shows me and others respect, regardless of their religious beliefs.
I don't have to respect anyone's actual belief, just their right to believe it and vice versa.

missyB1 · 12/09/2017 12:22

It's not about respecting Religion, it's about being able to debate in a mature, intelligent and respectful way - some people just aren't capable.

Piratesandpants · 12/09/2017 12:24

I know what you mean op. There's often a snide tone and insults to the intelligence of people who believe. On the other hand people who believe should get on and do it, no one else needs to know about it, it should be an entirely private matter whatever religion you belong to/belief you have.

Ikabod · 12/09/2017 12:25

I don't think YABU. You can disagree without being rude. I find the rudeness stifles cogent discussion and the opportunity to learn from others' beliefs and opinions.

ballestief · 12/09/2017 12:25

it's about being able to debate in a mature, intelligent and respectful way - some people just aren't capable

Actually some of us are more than capable, we just don't want to. I'm not interesting in debating anyone about religion, and if asked my views would be honest. If they find that rude they should not have asked!

Zool69 · 12/09/2017 12:25

I personally think religion is bullshit, but if it gives people comfort and happiness then that's fine, up to them.

The issue is when they expect other people to make unreasonable allowances for them because of their religion.

SilverySurfer · 12/09/2017 12:39

I would personally like to see religion eradicated from the planet and that it does more harm than good. However, if someone wishes to believe in the unbelievable, that's entirely up to them. It's not disrespectful to have a different opinion.

ErrolTheDragon · 12/09/2017 12:40

But it is true that some of the superstars of atheism (like Richard Dawkins, for example) are unnecessarily rude

Are they though? I'm not sure I've ever heard RD actually being 'rude'. Forthright, yes. He does quite a lot of asking mild questions and just looking on as the religious person digs themselves into a hole of illogic. I suppose him raising those eyebrows could be a bit intimidating. Confused On the other hand, he gets a regular stream of death threats. There's a youtube of him reading some of them... well, maybe some people would criticise that as mocking the afflicted.

ballestief · 12/09/2017 12:40

You can disagree without being rude. I find the rudeness stifles cogent discussion and the opportunity to learn from others' beliefs and opinions

But your view of what is rude may differ from mine. And I don't want to learn from others beliefs and opinions on religion, I have no need to.

For some religious people, saying you think their religion makes no sense is very rude. But it makes no sense to me, why shouldn't I say so?

EdmundCleverClogs · 12/09/2017 12:53

Beliefs do not deserve respect. People do.

This with bells on.

The thing about respecting beliefs is, when they get to be utterly ridiculous, to not challenge them as such is harmful to society as a whole. It allows people to stand screaming in the street that 'non-believers are going to Hell' because we sinners 'believe in evolution'. I don't have to respect such nonsense as 'just my belief'. I don't have to be nice about it either. If we just say 'well that's just your belief', where does it end?

Sometimes you just have to call stupid, stupid. No, I wouldn't start shouting abuse at that person, but nothing will stop me thinking they are not just wrong, they are unintelligent and uneducated.

One of my favourite lines about tolerance from South Park;

Tolerant but not stupid! Look, just because you have to tolerate something doesn’t mean you have to approve of it. Tolerate means you’re just putting up with it. You tolerate a crying child sitting next to you on the airplane or you tolerate a bad cold. It can still piss you off

That's why it's tolerance, not acceptance.

ncdasembarrassed · 12/09/2017 12:58

I think there are politer ways to say things

Flying Spaghetti Monster
Imaginary friend
Pedophile prophet

Etc... using those words alluding to a someone's faith isn't respectful or respecting them

I don't mind where people say why they disagree but when there's just eye rolling and sarcasm it's quite bitchy

Glumglowworm · 12/09/2017 12:58

I'll respect anyone's beliefs up to the point where those beliefs affect other people.

So you can think homosexuality is wrong all you want in private, but you can't discriminate against it

Godstopper · 12/09/2017 13:03

You can expect respect unless there is evidence that is undeserving; but your beliefs are a different matter. I'm utterly baffled by the implicit assumption that religious beliefs deserve respect purely in virtue of being religious, as if that elevates them above the same level of scrutiny we typically give to other beliefs. It's bizarre.

araiwa · 12/09/2017 13:31

Balls to that

Why should religion be special?

MaidOfStars · 12/09/2017 13:35

Flying Spaghetti Monster
As a thought experiment, FSM is an excellent tool.

The only people who get offended by it are those unable to see that, for atheists, it's all the same bloody thing, none more or less ridiculous than another.

EdmundCleverClogs · 12/09/2017 13:43

The only people who get offended by it are those unable to see that, for atheists, it's all the same bloody thing, none more or less ridiculous than another.

This is another issue. In general, religious people don't seem to understand that atheists don't find one specific unproven belief special. Whatever you choose to call it, FSM, Paganism, Old Greek/Roman/Viking Gods, etc, it's not like atheists will turn around and say 'oh but you're a Christian, I'm going to understand your unproven beliefs more than others, or ones that have fallen out of favour'. Sorry but it's all same nonsense, different name.

ChilliMary · 12/09/2017 13:46

I think when people demand unconditional respect for their faith, and can't accept scrutiny of that faith by out side observers, that is a bad and unhealthy thing. Everything thing should be questioned and nothing is absolute. People sometimes have a laugh at my beliefs and ask how could I possibly believe x,y and z. But it does not bother me, and I don't take myself too seriously, I think. But there are so many religious people that take themselves so very seriously and scream "disrespect!!!" every time someone points out discrepancies or difference of opinion.

Tamatoa · 12/09/2017 13:50

Why are the religious allowed to say 'god is real, he made you' to my toddler, but if I say 'god is 100% not real, I made you' I'm suddenly being rude?? I always correct my toddler when he makes a mistake, if you spout lies in front of kids, I'm going to say something.

Heathen4Hire · 12/09/2017 13:53

Respect the person, not the religion, I like that.

Religion is there for the mocking. It's a right!