Religion

[crazydil]

There have been a few threads in regards to religion and without exception there are always a few posters who cannot help themselves from being disrespectful.

Is it difficult to get a point across without a slight dig? Criticism is part of a healthy discussion but to be so rude about something that is very important to some. ..is it really needed?
I've never felt the need to be rude about anyones belief no matter how strange I find it to be.

So basically aibu in expecting respect in any conversation

A little tolerance and some good manners go an awful long way in this world.

Did you miss my quote about tolerance? It doesn't mean acceptance, it doesn't mean you can't get cross and question ridiculous views.

Have 'faith' to your hearts content, just keep it to yourself and places of worship. That way everyone can be happy.

When relgious types show some tolerance to gays, transgender, women, people of other religions i will consider doing the same to them

But whilst they continue to want to impose their views on others they will be mocked for their bullshit

If everyone studied the history of religions and how they came about they would see that they had everything to do with geo-politics and little to do with actual belief.

It's very easy to be polite and kind to an individual but it's quite hard to talk respectfully about their beliefs if you fundamentally find them absurd and dangerous.

Religion deserves to be mocked and questioned and torn apart and chastised

The people who believe in it deserve to be treated with derision and as less intelligent than others as, by declaring themselves religious, they've proven themselves to be struggling with the concept of science, equality and logic

Fucking hell, no one is more atheist than me, but that comment is nasty, vicious, intolerant and approaching some sort of atheist fanaticism.
I have some very intelligent religious friends; I happen not to agree with them.

I respect a person's right to believe in what ever they want to believe in.

But do I respect an organised religion which is just such obvious bollocks? No.

The issue for some people is that if you're criticising their religion, they think you are criticising them.

Edmund did you miss my reference to shirtyQwerty's bile filled venom? That's the kind of intolerance that's so bad for society and also so pointless really, what does it achieve?
And I very much keep my beliefs to myself- to the point that my in laws actually asked me if I was an atheist!

But people shouldn't have to hide the fact that they belong to a faith for fear of being attacked / ridiculed/ discriminated against.

But people shouldn't have to hide the fact that they belong to a faith for fear of being attacked / ridiculed/ discriminated against

Yet religious people get a free pass to do all those things because of their 'beliefs'. It's not about hiding faith, but it should be kept only to appropriate place. Home and places of worship, nowhere else.

I respect everyone's right to have a religion or belief system. I don't respect all religions.

Edmund when you say "religious people" who or what exactly do you mean? Do you seriously believe that anyone who has any kind of Faith or any beliefs that differ to your own are all bigoted and intolerant?
Maybe try treating people as individuals. I've met lovely atheists and truly nasty ones, same with people of Faith, probably because it's nothing to do with their beliefs but a lot to do with their personalities?

missyB1 I'm talking generally, as in those who cover bigoted views are protected by law if they claim it's their religion to believe these things. Just look at J Reese Morgan, not only can he come out with offensive beliefs publicly, he cannot be berated for them due to him 'being Catholic', he's practically untouchable. Worse, he's in a position of much power and possibly on his way to more. His religion is a problem for society, if he cannot separate it from politics and law, he shouldn't be in a position to have power over such things.

It's because of religion our laws take so long to catch up with a civilised society, because religion has up until recently had far too much power in how people live their lives.

That should be Rees-Mogg of course, silly phone

I'm offended regularly by people ridiculing me and my strongly held beliefs - often in public, in churches, synagogues, temples, mosques and so on.

Do I have the right to complain about this public abuse?

Should I expect respect in the public conversation that goes on in these places and elsewhere? I certainly don't get it the way things are currently.

My beliefs (about Jesus, Zarathustra, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, L Ron Hubbard and all the others, as well as other matters) are very important to me. Do I get any respect from christians, zoroastrians, muslims, mormons, scientologists and all the rest? Not so far as I've noticed; neither publically, nor in private.

I do try to tolerate other people and their beliefs. But the Gospel of John, Chapter 8, Verse 7 insists on coming to mind, OP.

Everyone is free to believe in a religion, but that doesn't mean that people cannot question that religion, nor hide behind it and expect special privilege when it comes to discussion.

Tolerance is a two way street and as an ex muslim, tolerance and reason is not something the religious are fond of.

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart".
*H.L. Mencken - Minority Report"

I definitely do not feel obligated to respect ideas and beliefs that cannot ever be proven. Religion has caused problems for as long as we've had written records of history. Nothing good comes of it.

Yet religious people get a free pass to do all those things because of their 'beliefs'. It's not about hiding faith, but it should be kept only to appropriate place. Home and places of worship, nowhere else.
*
^^ the problem with this is that for religious people there's a serious consequence eternally if they don't practice their beliefs and accommodate your preferences outside of what you've deemed appropriate places. Whereas for a non religious person accomodating a religious person holds no consequence either immediately or in any hereafter*

Whereas for a non religious person accomodating a religious person holds no consequence either immediately or in any hereafter

Just try thinking for a moment about some religious beliefs and what accommodating them might entail.

to be so rude about something that is very important to some. ..is it really needed?

And yet according to the church I am a fornicator and my children are sinful.

That's not rude then?

There is a fairly vast chasm between because religion uses 'because of faith' as an explanation.
To a non believer the reason needs to be 'because of the law', 'because of these ethics' justified by these reasons or 'because of this evidence'.
If you don't have that faith someone using it as a defence is inadequate. If you do have a faith then your faith "allows" the law or ethics or evidence to be wrong or inadequate.
There's no respect on either side as the values are mismatched.

Respect? Of systems that ensure babies with no choice are forced to join, that don't let people leave without dire consequences, that are horribly misogynistic/homophobic, that have ruined so many peoples' lives with their lies, stupid rules and indoctrination?

The sooner the atheists expose all religions for what they are, the better.

Just try thinking for a moment about some religious beliefs and what accommodating them might entail.

@ErrolTheDragon what ones?

If anyone forces you to practice one yourself such as "submitting to your husband" "dressing conservatively" etc that would be daft since it matters not if you follow their practices

But for many women of faith they actually (shock horror) want to do it themselves

But they're ridiculed for it and only allowed to be viewed as oppressed and forced whereas fairly often they feel empowered by living their faith like this

You might feel oppressed etc so of course YOU shouldn't be expected to, but you can't transfer your feelings onto them and say it's oppressive as for many- it's not!

When a person's religion expects me to believe that wine (aka watered down sherry) is 'blood' and a rice-paper wafer is truly 'flesh' and gets offended if I challenge that because it's all a bit 'emperor's new clothes' then you're right, I'll probably be a little less than deferential.

Because I'm entitled NOT to believe in a miraculous, divine being who allows free will but says if you DON'T believe in him, that you're damned. Because that's all a bit shit

I don't believe cows at sacred either (but if we could harness the methane they produce, we could be on to a winner!!) but I respect others' believe systems and I be respectful if those systems and transitions do as not to offend.... as long as these who practice that religion don't expect me to tell in with those beliefs, it make the mistake of confusing respect for acquiescence m.

I don't think anyone's religion expects anyone else to believe it. They might hope that you do but belief is not something people have a choice in... you believe or you don't in something

You don't have to believe it, you also don't have to say (to them) that it's shit and stupid and could choose your audience for that to people who won't feel your telling them they're stupid

Nobody's faith hinges on one belief only, there's multiple things in someone's faith that are reasons they believe so if you think one part is stupid that's okay, it's possible to say I don't believe that without saying "hahaha that's so daft only an idiot would believe that"

ncdasembarrassed

But it's OK for the religious to tell my kids they are sinners and we are going to hell because of our non belief?

How does that square up then?